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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 51
02-05-2013, 03:34 AM
It's definitely not op, it's easy to avoid, slow, mines get instantly killed with any kind of aoe damage (even a poor man's gravity well/TBR 1), and will do damage only if you use your eng slots for universals instead of eng consoles. If it's your choice don't blame others, blame yourself for using universals instead of a neutronium + monotanium (very useful in pve too anyway these days).

There's nothing really OP with mines, only people complaining about the necessity to adapt and change their old builds with heals only in the sci boff slots.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 75
# 52
02-05-2013, 05:40 AM
im not sure, if breen transphasic cluster torps are op or not, in addition to the "one crit all crit"-bug.

but i'd like to interject, that i have seen several times sob / sad panda premades (sometimes filled up with some opvp? players, who have an equal setup), where all eng / sci have breen transphasic cluster torps.
often enough the eng / sci ships had nearly equal damage values to the escorts (tactical captains).

for sure, it is diffcult to compare, due to the fact, that the damage from the mines must not be directed towards a special target. but it is allways fascinating to see a well played tac escort with 600k damage and 100k healing, for example, among some eng and sci ships with eng and sci captains, dealing 400k damage and 400k healing.
especially when you remember all these "pimp my cruiser"-threads...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 757
# 53
02-05-2013, 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lascaille View Post
im not sure, if breen transphasic cluster torps are op or not, in addition to the "one crit all crit"-bug.

but i'd like to interject, that i have seen several times sob / sad panda premades (sometimes filled up with some opvp? players, who have an equal setup), where all eng / sci have breen transphasic cluster torps.
often enough the eng / sci ships had nearly equal damage values to the escorts (tactical captains).

for sure, it is diffcult to compare, due to the fact, that the damage from the mines must not be directed towards a special target. but it is allways fascinating to see a well played tac escort with 600k damage and 100k healing, for example, among some eng and sci ships with eng and sci captains, dealing 400k damage and 400k healing.
especially when you remember all these "pimp my cruiser"-threads...
There's a difference.

Each of my torps will hit you, with full shields, for ~1500 damage. Now add in 2 copies of Torp Spread. That's a fairly substantial amount of damage.

But that's damage over a long period of time. I can pump out a significant amount of DPS, but all that DPS in the world doesn't matter if I'm not killing someone.

It might take someone with a full Transphasic build ~500,000 damage to kill someone (completely made up number) in 10 minutes. If an Escort can do that in ~75,000 damage and 10 seconds, does that mean that the Sci did better? No, the Escort did.

Damage numbers rarely mean anything. It's all about Burst damage and killing your target. Not sustained damage.
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,744
# 54
02-05-2013, 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
There's nothing really OP with mines, only people complaining about the necessity to adapt and change their old builds with heals only in the sci boff slots.
Old builds? You mean non-fail PvP builds.

PvEers are hilarious in their criticism of PvPers of their supposed inability to adapt, when it is they who participate in the most laughable content that requires no sophistication beyond damage to complete it.

lol at PvEers adapting to content.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.

Last edited by snoge00f; 02-05-2013 at 09:14 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 75
# 55
02-05-2013, 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by praxi5 View Post
There's a difference.
...
yes i already told it too.
but you should not forget, that there is no way, except with these cluster torps, to reach such a damage output, without weapon energy nor bo nor captains skill (and even doffs are not needed).

the question sustained or spike is no help
in my opinion it is even worse, that it is possible to reach such sustained damage values, without the need for anything else, then up to 13500 skillpoints on a t2 skill and one special weapon system, while you can max out your aux and shield energy.

i wouldn't be surprised, when a fav aux2bat atb or ato setup with those doffs for aux2bat (for example) would hardly reach such sustained damage values, even though such a setup would lose most sci skills (no aux) and must sacrifice 2 lt eng skill slots and 3 doff slots.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 757
# 56
02-05-2013, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lascaille View Post
yes i already told it too.
but you should not forget, that there is no way, except with these cluster torps, to reach such a damage output, without weapon energy nor bo nor captains skill (and even doffs are not needed).

the question sustained or spike is no help
in my opinion it is even worse, that it is possible to reach such sustained damage values, without the need for anything else, then up to 13500 skillpoints on a t2 skill and one special weapon system, while you can max out your aux and shield energy.

i wouldn't be surprised, when a fav aux2bat atb or ato setup with those doffs for aux2bat (for example) would hardly reach such sustained damage values, even though such a setup would lose most sci skills (no aux) and must sacrifice 2 lt eng skill slots and 3 doff slots.
With 100 to Weapons, you can still run at around 100 Aux with the MACO shield and skills. With 5 or so Beams, that's pretty potent. Or if you use 3 Cannons + Turrets.

With the Vesta, you've got the Aux DHCs.

Don't forget, there's Sci loadouts that pump out damage. GW, TBR, and PSW can all be spec'd up to doing some hefty damage.
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 57
02-05-2013, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lascaille View Post
im not sure, if breen transphasic cluster torps are op or not, in addition to the "one crit all crit"-bug.

but i'd like to interject, that i have seen several times sob / sad panda premades (sometimes filled up with some opvp? players, who have an equal setup), where all eng / sci have breen transphasic cluster torps.
often enough the eng / sci ships had nearly equal damage values to the escorts (tactical captains).

for sure, it is diffcult to compare, due to the fact, that the damage from the mines must not be directed towards a special target. but it is allways fascinating to see a well played tac escort with 600k damage and 100k healing, for example, among some eng and sci ships with eng and sci captains, dealing 400k damage and 400k healing.
especially when you remember all these "pimp my cruiser"-threads...
For what it's worth, STO's endgame scoreboard is near meaningless, even for heals. Quite frankly it can't even be used as a rough gauge, because you can go to the ACT afterwards and see a wildly different story.

Basically, the endgame scoreboard only counts effective hull damage. This means you can rack up very high numbers as a Sci/Eng with the trannies/cluster torps.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 58
02-05-2013, 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Old builds? You mean non-fail PvP builds.

PvEers are hilarious in their criticism of PvPers of their supposed inability to adapt, when it is they who participate in the most laughable content that requires no sophistication beyond damage to complete it.

lol at PvEers adapting to content.
I wouldn't name myself a pve-er but thanks for taking shrotcuts and starting ad hominem attacks because of your lack of arguments.

Adapting can be very simple: buying tons of BOffs slots. I don't need TBR on my KDF escort thanks to my aceton assimilator but on my fed it helps a lot when others only have mines to do damage. Yes, it works. Having something to counter your opponent's build isn't really a "fail build", exceptif you're lazy or ultra conservative. With a lot of boff slots most of the issues with mines are solved. If you get killed once it's unlikely you get killed twice with a different layout.

Of course pvp-ing costs a lot (plan 400 euros/500$ a year for an average game), whatever the game is, so i won't accept F2P arguments as valid, because if you don't spend any money for pvp then you're the only one to blame.

Last edited by diogene0; 02-05-2013 at 02:53 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,744
# 59
02-05-2013, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
I don't need TBR on my KDF escort thanks to my aceton assimilator but on my fed it helps a lot when others only have mines to do damage.
If you're spamming that crap as KDF, you're part of the problem.

And it's part of the reason why KDF find it so hard to get queues to pop. Right now the queue reads like, Fed 0 KDF 12. No one wants to queue up to get cheesed. And that's sad, because I rather enjoy fighting KDF players.


And not taking heals in your LT SCI while pugging is being a real prick to your teammates.

You're supposed to support your teammates with your LT SCI, and if not your teammates then yourself, so you aren't as much of a drain on your healers.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 81
# 60
02-05-2013, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Old builds? You mean non-fail PvP builds.

PvEers are hilarious in their criticism of PvPers of their supposed inability to adapt, when it is they who participate in the most laughable content that requires no sophistication beyond damage to complete it.

lol at PvEers adapting to content.
Though I am no longer obsessed about the BTCT, I wanted to check in with this thread to see if this knucklehead was still Trolling. I neither consider myself a PVE er but this tool made the same assumptions about me. I do PVE, I have all the gear to prove it, but any concern I have for this game is for the competitive aspect of it, i.e. pvp.

As far as system changes in pve, you tool are correct and CRYPTIC could change many systems and one would not feel handicapped to complete that content.

I have faith in Cryptic to do what needs to be done. They should just write in system changes to the game and have some tac officer inform me of changes when I log into my account. The NPC could say something like "The company that makes BTCT has been bought out by Ferangi Merchants who have decreased the number of mines by 2 so that they may increase their profit margins."
If CRYPTIC made changes part of the evolution of the story than perhaps people could more readily accept changes. (Not that they need to do that for me, but it would connect Cryptic's decision making to the game arc.
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