Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,839
# 51
02-05-2013, 08:20 AM
First of all sorry, I'm gonna snap the quotes because if I leave them the post will be from here to Mt.Everest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
The only problem was they did a couple of things that in hindsight they shouldnt have done.

[snap]

Also for the record, I am not trying to be mean ... what I do want is proper Klingon experience and that means NO GORN ON MY B'REL! as some of you are diluting the Klingon Empire with things that in my opinion do not belong there, as much damage Cryptic have done it would not nearly enough of the damage some of you would inflict as the entire thing would became "Birds-of-Prey:Online", Featuring General T'ts, the Orion female .... slave dancer.
??? *facepalm*

1. When I walked in, the door was open and there was a KDF faction.
2. The shows were about the Federation's perception of things, but that is by no means a valid argument for making a MMO one-centered. Every half-decent MMO has at least two factions. What you're saying is allowing the devs. to get lazy on us by bothering themselves with only one faction.
3. The shows had financial restrictions and tight budget many times. That's one of the reasons most of the crewmembers we see are human. That's also the reason that most of the alien species are humanoid. It was the sixties. Surely you don't think that from all the worlds of the Federation humans are most numerous and only they serve Starfleet. By the logic of what you mentioned, we should restrict the numbers of players that can use Andorian, Vulcan or Caitian in STO because especially these 3 races in game have around the same population of players with human, and in no ST show have we ever seen a fully alien bridge that has no human serving on it.
4. I don't dream of "Klingons:Online", nor does any of the Klingon fans I had the opportunity to speak with on these forums. We just wish we had a proper faction, nothing more, nothing less.
5. Sooo, Federation captains can break the "prime directive" whenever they feel it's right, but the Klingon Empire can't adapt and join forces with warlike species that share their discontent with the Federation? With the rate the Federation is expanding, the Klingon Empire had to adapt or be ovverrun. Honestly, people should really stop seeing the Klingons like mindless brutes that don't know anything but holding a bathleth. There is much more to their culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
I have a KDF character, Klingon since its the only race the KDF actually have, everyone acts like a Klingon regardless of their actual species and this annoys the crap out of me.

[snap]

And this is the difference of what I want (The Klingon Empire) and what some of you want (A version of the Federation), also for the record I dont like when my Vulcan BO act emotional either but a lot of things get a easier pass in the Federation due to its structure, now the KDF ... I dont think we ever seen a non-Klingon Captain or heck a non-Klingon Officer serving about a Klingon ship.
6. Klingons were once fast friends with the Romulans. Now they just want to kill each other even faster. The relations between the Fed. and KDF have always been hot/cold, so why is it weird if now it's cold and they are at conflict once more?
7. Noone is asking for more KDF species, we're asking for more genuine content that is not a Fed. digest.
8. True Way in KDF = you should know by now that some people in the forums just need to be ignored.
9. Why you go on insulting the Ferasan? They are actually Kzinti, a race that is Star Trek cannon, but do not have their name because Cryptic couldn't handle buying the copyrights to call them what they are. They don't deserve this namecalling due to your lack of information on the subject.
10. Orions are not "servant" race to the KDF. They are allied now. The Orions were looking for a new homeworld and a new allience to protect their assets from the Federation. They approached the Breen and the Klingon Epire. I guess J'mpok is a better negotiator than the Breen. They are not slaves, they are allies.
11. The Nausicaans were an advanced spacefaring race more than 1000 years ago, back when humanity was still in diapers. They were struck by a genetic virus that destroyed their civilization and the sole survivors were prisoners and criminals that were used as guinea pigs to test different cures for the disease. That's how most of them ended as pirates. Who's to say that there is no Nausicaan that has a sence of honor? Be objective, if mankind managed to create an utopia of Earth in a 1000 years, why wouldn't at least couple of Nausicaans develop sense of honor, especially now living amongst Klingons?
12. I'm giving you just one example, you can look up for the rest - Jadzia Dax was serving as a senior officer on a Klingon Bird of Prey.
13. Just how does an emotional Vulcan pass in the Federation because of it's structure? I don't get it.
14. I have a Klingon captain with only Klingon bridge crew. Nothing restricts me from doing this. Same goes for you if you don't like other than Klingon Boffs. But to say that it is not possible for Klingons to ally with anybody is a nonsence. What were they doing in DS9 with the Dominion threat? Weren't there Romulans as well, their arch enemy?

And now, feeling a bit exausted I'm going to bed. Thank you and good night!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 52
02-05-2013, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpoks View Post
First of all sorry, I'm gonna snap the quotes because if I leave them the post will be from here to Mt.Everest.



??? *facepalm*

1. When I walked in, the door was open and there was a KDF faction.
2. The shows were about the Federation's perception of things, but that is by no means a valid argument for making a MMO one-centered. Every half-decent MMO has at least two factions. What you're saying is allowing the devs. to get lazy on us by bothering themselves with only one faction.
3. The shows had financial restrictions and tight budget many times. That's one of the reasons most of the crewmembers we see are human. That's also the reason that most of the alien species are humanoid. It was the sixties. Surely you don't think that from all the worlds of the Federation humans are most numerous and only they serve Starfleet. By the logic of what you mentioned, we should restrict the numbers of players that can use Andorian, Vulcan or Caitian in STO because especially these 3 races in game have around the same population of players with human, and in no ST show have we ever seen a fully alien bridge that has no human serving on it.
4. I don't dream of "Klingons:Online", nor does any of the Klingon fans I had the opportunity to speak with on these forums. We just wish we had a proper faction, nothing more, nothing less.
5. Sooo, Federation captains can break the "prime directive" whenever they feel it's right, but the Klingon Empire can't adapt and join forces with warlike species that share their discontent with the Federation? With the rate the Federation is expanding, the Klingon Empire had to adapt or be ovverrun. Honestly, people should really stop seeing the Klingons like mindless brutes that don't know anything but holding a bathleth. There is much more to their culture.



6. Klingons were once fast friends with the Romulans. Now they just want to kill each other even faster. The relations between the Fed. and KDF have always been hot/cold, so why is it weird if now it's cold and they are at conflict once more?
7. Noone is asking for more KDF species, we're asking for more genuine content that is not a Fed. digest.
8. True Way in KDF = you should know by now that some people in the forums just need to be ignored.
9. Why you go on insulting the Ferasan? They are actually Kzinti, a race that is Star Trek cannon, but do not have their name because Cryptic couldn't handle buying the copyrights to call them what they are. They don't deserve this namecalling due to your lack of information on the subject.
10. Orions are not "servant" race to the KDF. They are allied now. The Orions were looking for a new homeworld and a new allience to protect their assets from the Federation. They approached the Breen and the Klingon Epire. I guess J'mpok is a better negotiator than the Breen. They are not slaves, they are allies.
11. The Nausicaans were an advanced spacefaring race more than 1000 years ago, back when humanity was still in diapers. They were struck by a genetic virus that destroyed their civilization and the sole survivors were prisoners and criminals that were used as guinea pigs to test different cures for the disease. That's how most of them ended as pirates. Who's to say that there is no Nausicaan that has a sence of honor? Be objective, if mankind managed to create an utopia of Earth in a 1000 years, why wouldn't at least couple of Nausicaans develop sense of honor, especially now living amongst Klingons?
12. I'm giving you just one example, you can look up for the rest - Jadzia Dax was serving as a senior officer on a Klingon Bird of Prey.
13. Just how does an emotional Vulcan pass in the Federation because of it's structure? I don't get it.
14. I have a Klingon captain with only Klingon bridge crew. Nothing restricts me from doing this. Same goes for you if you don't like other than Klingon Boffs. But to say that it is not possible for Klingons to ally with anybody is a nonsence. What were they doing in DS9 with the Dominion threat? Weren't there Romulans as well, their arch enemy?

And now, feeling a bit exausted I'm going to bed. Thank you and good night!
A valid argument indeed, I just wish people could see that Cryptic have made mistake after mistake, lied and cheated their way into popularity and nobody feels the need to hold them to account for their actions. Its almost false advertising and fraud really...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,855
# 53
02-05-2013, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Klingons have been a vibrant fanbase in the IP for decades
Actually, Klingon fans tend to be a more dedicated minority. The majority of any fan base is more casual, and casual Star Trek fans don't care about the Klingons since the entire main franchise has been about the Federation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shpoks View Post
Every half-decent MMO has at least two factions.
Define "half-decent".

I know the following have one faction: Vindictus, Ragnarok Online, Perfect World, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Champions Online, Maple Story, and (haha) Hellgate: London.

I am unsure but believe the following have one faction: Asheron's Call, Everquest, Ultima Online, Age of Conan, Final Fantasy XI, Lineage, Rift, *********, and Tabula Rasa.

City of Heroes really only had one faction, with a seperate related game that later merged with it. I believe EVE Online doesn't have game factions, but player-created ones.

Most MMOs have shared content, not faction separate ones like WoW. Even WoW ends up with shared content after a certain level. It doesn't make much sense for a company to double their workload by limiting content to half their player base.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,394
# 54
02-05-2013, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
A valid argument indeed, I just wish people could see that Cryptic have made mistake after mistake, lied and cheated their way into popularity and nobody feels the need to hold them to account for their actions. Its almost false advertising and fraud really...
Peregrine's history of the KDF exists because the folks who have played the faction and care about it and the game want to hold Cryptic accountable for their actions. They don't want people to forget. And they do feel it has been false advertising, borken promises, and a whole lot of mularkey for three straight years.

Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,394
# 55
02-05-2013, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
Define "half-decent".
Everquest, Everquest 2, World of ********, Star Wars: The Old Republic. They all have multiple factions. EQ has three.

Quote:
Dungeons & Dragons Online
DDO has good characters. And evil. Their alignment system, which is the grand daddy of factions, has multiple paths, so DDO does have a second faction. Unlock your dark elf, and run with it.


Quote:
City of Heroes really only had one faction, with a seperate related game that later merged with it.
There was nothing "Later" about it. From the moment COV launched, you could fight heroes in PVP. Two factions, one game. And then ... and THEN ... COX went ROGUE!

Quote:
Even WoW ends up with shared content after a certain level.
A lot of KDF players are fine with shared content at the end-game which has been in place since season 1. The Borg STFs really do require teaming up. It's the BORG for crying out loud. It's just the fact that so much is simply Fed made missions that the KDF can play (the anniversary mission is a good example). And really what the KDF has been asking for since day 1 is to fill out 1 to 50. So that when the KDF gets to the end-game and starts sharing goals with the other faction(s) ... Cause you know they've teased a third faction for almost three years too ... that they had a normal second faction levelling experience to get there in the first place.

They want their faction completed.

And anyone who wants to play a Romulan in this game should support that idea, else the Romulans get the same lackadasical half-done treatment the Klingons got.

Quote:
It doesn't make much sense for a company to double their workload by limiting content to half their player base.
In the 36 months this game has been live if they had just added one small mission per month, or tweaked/changed a Fed mission to have a KDF equivalent, their work on the KDF would be complete. 36 more missions to fill in the blanks. That would have been enough to fill in the gaps. And this entire debate would have been dead.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 56
02-05-2013, 10:30 AM
It will be put up or shut up time for Cryptic when it comes to the Klingon Faction in May.
I've been here since open beta (no playable Klingon faction) and I've listened to all of the empty promises of what was to come for the Klingons for the last 3 years and I hope that Cryptic delivers this time.

It would be something to see a fleshed out KDF faction and a new Romulan Faction; however, if playable Romulans are coming, I fear that they may just be added to both factions.

The Reputation System has already laid the ground work for explaining why some Romulans would side with the KDF and others would choose to side with the Federation.

I hope that if we do get a Romulan faction that the faction is solely Romulan.

What a finished KDF faction means to me:

A full tutorial explaining STO from the Klingon perspective (Need)

The ability to level a New KDF Captain from 1 ? max (Need)

More True Science Ships (Need)

Featured Episodes that are built around KDF issues that the Federation can (assist) in (Want)

A Klingon House Reputation System that?s solely for Klingons (want)

The ability to oust J?mpok and appoint Worf has the new Chancellor by thrusting the power upon him
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,145
# 57
02-05-2013, 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by errab View Post
<snip>

The ability to oust J?mpok and appoint Worf has the new Chancellor by thrusting the power upon him
Worf has always been a traitor in my mind, and I will be first in line to remove him should he EVER become chancellor.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,769
# 58
02-05-2013, 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
Actually, Klingon fans tend to be a more dedicated minority. The majority of any fan base is more casual, and casual Star Trek fans don't care about the Klingons since the entire main franchise has been about the Federation.
Small or not, the point is the Klingon have been vibrant and active as a fanbase that grew out of the IP.
Besides the feds what other fanbase from the IP has done as much growth, had as much public awareness out there or just plain done as much as reprisenetive as the Klingon fanbase?
Where are the Romulan charities? The Cardassian productions of Skaekespear? The andorians used TV commercials and the like?

So as fans, even if small, who else has brought such notice and publicity back to the IP?

Hells doughnuts man, most do not even know how the first Klingon fans came to be back in the first days of Star Trek going public.

We may be small but we are vibrant. Its a shame that Cryptic has not finished the MMO faction that has been the "frenemy" since the oldest days of the IP.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,983
# 59
02-05-2013, 11:30 AM
Honestly (IMO) I think the OP should give up and find another MMO that he would like to play as from his overall posting history he just dose't like STO or the development team behind it.

IMO - Problem is, I don't think there is an MMO development team that would be able to do STO in a manner he would enjoy - SOE has sucked as an MMO developer from day one (Even n the heyday of EQ; the playerbase attitude was EQ was successful in spite of SOE, not because of it); Blizzard would have zero interest. EA/BioWare took the Star Wars IP and made a bad WoW clone with space combat on rails; NCSoft doesn't want to back/use Western developers beyond porting/translating Korean MMOs -- and the original holder of the STO IP was given 4 years by CBS to create something at at the end of that 4 year period, had a few concept screenshots (all made with photoshop); some hi rez interior model renders done with off the shelf 3D software (that they admitted could be used for an MMO and wouldn't render like the model on your average end user PC) -- and it's why Cryptic took the license, and CBS set a hard launch date (since they didn't want a repeat of the Perpetual situation.)

It's okay to move on from an MMO you don't like (even if you like the IP source material); and find something yo0u enjoy playing in your spare time.

I's say atm - CBS is very happy with the situation as:

- The game continues to attract players to return (as evidenced by the large login queues from 1/31/13 that lasted into the weekend ant peak times.

- CBS has a game that keeps the original version IP alive in some fashion, and helps them promote teh Blu-Ray remaster release of TNG, the release of Enterprise on native Blu-Ray, and alsoo allows them to make cash from Paramount in cross prompoting the new Star Trek film series.

Cryptic is also happy as:

- The game (by Cryptic's own public estimate) cost about $20-$25 million to make; and I think it's at the point where they've recouped those initial costs, and the game is now paying for itself and generating a decent profit.

- They survived a sell of buy Atari and got a large developer/publisher to better support the game in terms of server capacity and staffing levels -- and PWE seems happy too as STO is often their top Western MMO (unless you believe someone's lying.)

So, sorry, but I don't see PWE closing/selling off Cryptic, or CBS ending what to date for them has been a profitable, and generally well received venture; to instead sell the IP to another developer (with all the extra cost, legal and otherwise that entail's) somehow hoping for an even more profitable result.

Remember, in the end, Star Trek really ISN'T a philosophy (as much as some might like to believe) -- it's entertainment, and a business (and one GR made a very good living off of and if you read about the man -- and not the myth surrounding him -- it was all about the business. He was angry about the fact that he SOLD TOS 100% lock stock and barrel to Paramount at the end of its run, as he never thought it would do well in syndication; and Paramount took it, marketed it, and managed to find an audience willing to spend a lot of money on it. That's why, when they asked GR to be involved in TNG, he tried to make TNG as different in tone as possible to TOS, as he didn't consider TOS his as he could gt a cut from what Paramount had done with it alone.)

As long as it's profitable in it's current form; and/or CBS continues to see the value in it as a marketing tool for future Star Trek related media ventures; they'll happily keep STO going with Cryptic at the helm.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says: "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,027
# 60
02-05-2013, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
Peregrine's history of the KDF exists because the folks who have played the faction and care about it and the game want to hold Cryptic accountable for their actions. They don't want people to forget. And they do feel it has been false advertising, borken promises, and a whole lot of mularkey for three straight years.

Personally, I feel it's all because most people mistook 'We'd LIKE to get this done by then' wording for actual promises... imo, business always have changing schedules and such, so it's not surprising when things change and/or fall through.

But no, many treated Cryptic's words like they're contracts written in blood... and some still do even though they're not sharing as much I never understood how others see things like that...
Was named Trek17, but still an author.

Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh'.
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