Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 41
02-04-2013, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barachielangel View Post
I hear there's a Nemesis style "Fire-while-Cloaked" console buried somewhere in the New Romulus Rep Grind. That... *that* I must have.
I'm afraid it's not a console, just the T5 activity ability. It gives 8 seconds of boost to all sci skills, and cloak for the last 5 seconds, then has a 10 minute CD.

[quote=age03;7888571]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
There are so many things wrong with this statement... I don't have the time or patience to explain them to you slowly like I would need to for you to understand.



/QUOTE]

No there isn't as it is exacty what an Omega shield is Regen not like Maco which is Resilant don't tall me what I don't know about building an escort.
I don't even like that guy, but in this instance he's right. If best shield type can be said to be determined by anything it's ship class (sci ships almost do need a resilient with their low hull), and even that is extremely questionable. Factors like amount of power to shields and number of shield and hull heals you're running are far more important, but resilient is pretty much always a good choice.

It looks like your reasoning may have been that the Omega set is for Tacs and its shield is regenerative, therefore since the devs obviously know everything about their game regenerative must be the best for Tacs. There are two flaws in that logic. The first is that the Omega set is for Tacs, as a matter of fact many Tacs will use MACO for its superior protection, and the only person I know who uses Omega effectively is an Eng. The second is that the devs know everything about the game, therefore anything they put in it has to be right. Believe me, they don't know everything, players find all kinds of things that never occurred to them, and then there are problems we've been screaming about for years that they haven't touched (sci ability balance, anyone?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by barachielangel View Post
Next up, I should probably figure out what to do with my Excelsior-refit. Some days, I just need a good cruiser to tool around in.

I've got a HORDE of Phased Polaron Dual Beams and Beam Arrays, as well as some Mark XI Quantums to go with it. Just no idea what to build on.
The real strength of the Excelsior is how well it can work with a single cannons fore/turrets aft build. If you really want to use DBBs though you can try it, although it'll probably be a net DPS loss. So yeah, basically you want cannons fore, turrets aft, and either an EPtWeapons and EPtShields with those Damage Control Engineers, two of each ability, or one of each ability with dual Auxiliary to Batteries and 3 purple Technician doffs. That last is kind of weird, and probably loses some survivability from conflicts with Aux2SIF and that fact that you are stuck at very low Aux for your sci heals, but it will reduce all boff ability cooldowns by 30% of their time remaining every 10 seconds, which tends to be hugely powerful. (TSS and HE every 30 seconds instead of 45, full uptime on both emergency power abilities all the time, 20 second cooldown or less on all weapon abilities, APO at 30 seconds instead of 1 minute, APB at 20 seconds or less, etc.) Then fill in the eng slots with heals and maybe an Eject Warp Plasma or Directed Energy Modulation, tac with a Tac Team, a weapon ability, and then either a second weapon ability or an attack pattern (definitely the attack pattern if you go for the Aux to Batt build). That's a general idea, anyway.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,005
# 42
02-04-2013, 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
I don't even like that guy, but in this instance he's right. If best shield type can be said to be determined by anything it's ship class (sci ships almost do need a resilient with their low hull), and even that is extremely questionable. Factors like amount of power to shields and number of shield and hull heals you're running are far more important, but resilient is pretty much always a good choice.

It looks like your reasoning may have been that the Omega set is for Tacs and its shield is regenerative, therefore since the devs obviously know everything about their game regenerative must be the best for Tacs. There are two flaws in that logic. The first is that the Omega set is for Tacs, as a matter of fact many Tacs will use MACO for its superior protection, and the only person I know who uses Omega effectively is an Eng. The second is that the devs know everything about the game, therefore anything they put in it has to be right. Believe me, they don't know everything, players find all kinds of things that never occurred to them, and then there are problems we've been screaming about for years that they haven't touched (sci ability balance, anyone?).
Yeah, regenerative shields are just plain not great for Escorts.

I will sometimes use the Omega shields in PVP for the Gravitic Anchor, and I've even thought about swapping out my Reverse Shield Polarity for a Tractor Beam, because of how useful it is to keep your enemy from getting out of the sights of your cannons... but in STFs, it's MACO shields all the way.

MACO shields have more shield points, 10% All Energy Resistance on top of the 20% Plasma resist, and only 5% bleedthrough compared to Omega shields' 10% bleed. That is way, way better than extra regen.

I wish the Omega shields were better, though, because I honestly like the way they look on my Defiant (I'm in the vast minority there, judging from other posts I've read). Plus, I'd love to have the Gravitic Anchor without feeling like I'm hamstringing my survivability.

EDIT:
hahaha I'm kinda dumb here, RSP is Engineering and Tractor Beam is Science. Oh well.

What I wouldn't give for a universal Ensign slot on the Fleet Defiant right now...

Last edited by thratch1; 02-04-2013 at 10:50 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,605
# 43
02-05-2013, 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
I don't even like that guy, but in this instance he's right. If best shield type can be said to be determined by anything it's ship class (sci ships almost do need a resilient with their low hull), and even that is extremely questionable. Factors like amount of power to shields and number of shield and hull heals you're running are far more important, but resilient is pretty much always a good choice.
I'll take it that you don't like me, which I am fine with. But as you stated, there is a reason to use resilient shields. And I have used all 4 shield types in the game, and so far resilient has never gone wrong for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
Yeah, regenerative shields are just plain not great for Escorts.

I will sometimes use the Omega shields in PVP for the Gravitic Anchor, and I've even thought about swapping out my Reverse Shield Polarity for a Tractor Beam, because of how useful it is to keep your enemy from getting out of the sights of your cannons... but in STFs, it's MACO shields all the way.

MACO shields have more shield points, 10% All Energy Resistance on top of the 20% Plasma resist, and only 5% bleedthrough compared to Omega shields' 10% bleed. That is way, way better than extra regen.

I wish the Omega shields were better, though, because I honestly like the way they look on my Defiant (I'm in the vast minority there, judging from other posts I've read). Plus, I'd love to have the Gravitic Anchor without feeling like I'm hamstringing my survivability.

EDIT:
hahaha I'm kinda dumb here, RSP is Engineering and Tractor Beam is Science. Oh well.

What I wouldn't give for a universal Ensign slot on the Fleet Defiant right now...
Another person agreeing on resilient, and I know this guy really likes his escorts.

But you guys both know that age will never admit to being wrong, and I don't have the heart or patience to really try to explain to him that he is.

But I stand by what I said, for the most part, regardless of what ship class you are using, resilient is a good choice in almost every circumstance.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 42
# 44
02-05-2013, 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I'll take it that you don't like me, which I am fine with. But as you stated, there is a reason to use resilient shields. And I have used all 4 shield types in the game, and so far resilient has never gone wrong for me.



Another person agreeing on resilient, and I know this guy really likes his escorts.

But you guys both know that age will never admit to being wrong, and I don't have the heart or patience to really try to explain to him that he is.

But I stand by what I said, for the most part, regardless of what ship class you are using, resilient is a good choice in almost every circumstance.
So Resilient it is. Duly noted.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 45
02-05-2013, 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I'll take it that you don't like me, which I am fine with. But as you stated, there is a reason to use resilient shields. And I have used all 4 shield types in the game, and so far resilient has never gone wrong for me.

Another person agreeing on resilient, and I know this guy really likes his escorts.

But you guys both know that age will never admit to being wrong, and I don't have the heart or patience to really try to explain to him that he is.

But I stand by what I said, for the most part, regardless of what ship class you are using, resilient is a good choice in almost every circumstance.
You're just so very... positive about everything, even sometimes things that aren't necessarily that clear cut. But yes, from everything I've seen age is the type who is convinced that he knows everything despite being wrong on most of it, and refuses to listen to anyone who tries to help him. And I agree, resilient is definitely a good choice most of the time, and it's pretty definitely the best choice more of the time than any other type. It's possible that under just the right circumstances another choice might be slightly better, but you're definitely not going to suffer from using resilient the way you might suffer from using another type in the wrong circumstances.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,605
# 46
02-05-2013, 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
You're just so very... positive about everything, even sometimes things that aren't necessarily that clear cut.
I think you mean I always seem to be black and white on so many things that really should be left in grey areas? Yeah, that's just how I am... But it does have advantages, and I am willing to admit when I am wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
But yes, from everything I've seen age is the type who is convinced that he knows everything despite being wrong on most of it, and refuses to listen to anyone who tries to help him.
I won't argue this point at all. The threads... man... need more be said lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
And I agree, resilient is definitely a good choice most of the time, and it's pretty definitely the best choice more of the time than any other type. It's possible that under just the right circumstances another choice might be slightly better, but you're definitely not going to suffer from using resilient the way you might suffer from using another type in the wrong circumstances.
Yeah, that's all very true. You will never suffer from lowered bleedthrough, and will NEVER suffer from 5% of the damage being nullified outright, and 10% reduction in capacity and regeneration are manageable with EPtS and TSS. Also resilient shields do seem to take less damage than any of the other shield types, but that might just be an illusion.

I will grant you that there are times when I wish my capacity was higher, and there are many times where I really could use a higher regen rate, but that's all easily dealt with by using power settings and deflectors.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,855
# 47
02-05-2013, 10:13 AM
My own observation on the MACO (Resiliant) vs Borg (Regen) shield...

I use the Borg Deflector and Engines (Mk XII, for hull heal proc).

My Vesta is not an escort, but also has a low hull - and really she does better with the MACO, especially since as an Eng in a Science Ship there's plenty of shield heals to keep the bigger shield topped up. With the Borg shield, her shields are almost always up but she's dying from hull damage anyway.

My JHEC on the other hand, I currently have the Mk XII MACO on it and I'm going to put the Borg shield back on. Shields don't usually just go pop, but they wear down and then I have difficulty getting it back up (har har) after which my hull drops and I blow. The 3-piece Borg shield recovery does make a notable difference in keeping just a bit of shields up to soak damage.

Addendum:
My understanding is that Resilient shields eat 95% of the incoming damage instead of 90%, it doesn't just make 5% disappear. Having 5% apply to your shields instead of hull does nothing for energy weapons (worse because your hull probably has higher than 10% resistance to non-Plasma energy) but for kinetic weapons where the shields will negate 75% and your hull takes double, it makes a big difference.

On my Vesta, the Borg shields were staying up from Borg torpedo salvos but the hull was taking a massive pounding in terms of % strength.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk

Last edited by darkjeff; 02-05-2013 at 10:16 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,605
# 48
02-05-2013, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
Addendum:
My understanding is that Resilient shields eat 95% of the incoming damage instead of 90%, it doesn't just make 5% disappear. Having 5% apply to your shields instead of hull does nothing for energy weapons (worse because your hull probably has higher than 10% resistance to non-Plasma energy) but for kinetic weapons where the shields will negate 75% and your hull takes double, it makes a big difference.

On my Vesta, the Borg shields were staying up from Borg torpedo salvos but the hull was taking a massive pounding in terms of % strength.
According to the tool-tip though, resilient shields take 90% damage, 5% bleedthrough, and 5% absorbed. I could be wrong, but that's what I've seen on the tool-tip and in combat.

Resilient Shield Array
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,855
# 49
02-05-2013, 03:13 PM
Hm, I had never noticed that 5% actually just disappears, though I guess it doesn't help your shields stay up, just less bleedthrough.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,484
# 50
02-05-2013, 04:06 PM
Then .Why even bother using the Borg Assimulated Regerative Shield as it is Regen not Resilant?

To the OP if you don't like me as I just gave you some suggestions and not odering you do this or that like hereticknight085 has tendancy to do so.It wasn't worth posting this thread and to work it out on your own or ask friends/fleetmates.

You might want to consider getting into a good fleet.

btw I have been playing Star Trek games for over 10 years now and played one of the hardest skill based rpgs.I ma not a little Kid as I saw ToS on a black and white TV set.This when Apollo 11 went to the moon.
Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers

Last edited by age03; 02-05-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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