Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,094
# 131
02-06-2013, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
If you think firing arc doesn't matter at all, maybe you should duel some of the better tac cruisers out there and see how fast they burn you down while you try to zip around them
Not that it doesn't matter, but that it's broken. Weapons continue to fire outside their arcs.

The weapon only checks if the target's in the arc at the beginning of the cycle - remaining shots will continue to fire regardless of the arc. Doesn't check per shot. You can fire fore 45 arc weapons as if they're aft as long as the target was in the fore 45 arc when you initially fired.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 127
# 132
02-06-2013, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Not that it doesn't matter, but that it's broken. Weapons continue to fire outside their arcs.

The weapon only checks if the target's in the arc at the beginning of the cycle - remaining shots will continue to fire regardless of the arc. Doesn't check per shot. You can fire fore 45 arc weapons as if they're aft as long as the target was in the fore 45 arc when you initially fired.
You can do the same thing with beams. Weapons in this game are all Smart Weapons for some reason heh.

The thing is Nadion sucks. It's easily emulated and surpassed by EPTW1 even.
MW meh. It's pretty rare to actually get a ship that far gone that it actually needs MW
EPS power, I use if anything as more of a booster for my aux when EPTA or Aux batteries are on CD. It's not that hot of an ability especially if we want to start talking about the horror of Team Batteries.

Eng Fleet is meh. Scattering field does it better, and on a quicker CD.

The Eng in pvp needs his powers completely restructured. MW should be a bonus to all healing thrown (lets say +100 for the next 15 seconds), Nadion should actually resist power drain attacks of all sorts. EPS power transfer might actually be fine as it is since you can at least throw it to team mates or use between Team Batt, Red Matter, Oberth console cool downs.

Eng Fleet, should be what Sci fleet is now (and sci Fleet gets changed to a debuff booster, like +100 to Gravitons, Flow cap, and decompiler for 15 secs)

RSF is actually fine, though it might need a slight regen boost.

With all of the blatant free heals in this game the eng is kind of homeless, because the resistances and heals he was granted with, have not upscaled with the games healing across the board.

The best way to play a cruiser, unless you're being stubborn is to go Sci or Tac unfortunately.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,094
# 133
02-06-2013, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavhax View Post
You can do the same thing with beams. Weapons in this game are all Smart Weapons for some reason heh.
Arrays don't do the damage that DHCs nor DCs do. They don't do the damage that DBBs do. They don't do the damage SCs do. Sure, the 360 Arrays you can pull off in an Escort's better than if you were just Turrets...but that's about it.

Were the weapons balanced around them actually only firing shots in the arc or were they balanced knowing that the arc is only checked at the start of the cycle? That's what my question to Cryptic is. Did they say, okay - DHCs can only fire in a 45 arc so they do X damage? Or did they say, okay - DHCs can only initiate a cycle in a 45 arc so they do X damage? If it was the former rather than the latter, then they need to look at all the weapons again...

Consider the Torp - there's no cycle. It's just the shot. Outside of the Hyper-Plasma (not sure about the Ferengi rockets) - it's just one shot. Were they balanced around other weapons being limited to a certain arc or were they balanced around other weapons being able to continue firing outside that arc?

Just one of those things...

If weapons actually could only fire while in their arcs...would there be less discussion about imbalance in weapons?
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 127
# 134
02-06-2013, 11:09 AM
But you aren't getting more than one squeeze off in the space bar. I'm sure they didn't consider it, though if weapons literally had their shots vaporize outside of traveled arcs the Z axis abuse would be even worse and since we both know the lol devs won't give us a real Z "it's too confusing!" (their words not mine), do we really want to make the Z axis even more of a problem than it already is?

DHCs also have things like a lack of overlap working against them which is definitely noticable against high cap low regen targets (as the pitiful regen can actually keep pace after all the heals are thrown).

I'd be DHC bullets only shooting things infront of you, if there was a Real Z Axis.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,861
# 135
02-06-2013, 11:13 AM
I thought beams were used only to disable and or drain systems (especially the shields), not deal real raw damage to the hull. I assumed cruisers would rely heavily on projectile and sci/eng abilities to inflict crippling damage.

Well, that's what I saw in canon anyway .
Reality is WAR
KHG Klingon Honor Guard

Last edited by deokkent; 02-06-2013 at 11:17 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,047
# 136
02-06-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
What land of lunacy would it be if BAs had DHC DPV, so you can have a 360 degree capable BO 3 at DHC DPV level?
How does "one I didn't ask for" sound? I asked for beam arrays to do DC level damage considering how they cannot keep up with DHCs and beam arrays overall are outperformed by DC which due to the power of DHCs are useless anyway.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 137
02-06-2013, 11:30 AM
actually, if beam arrays were given the DBB DPV and DPS, and DBB were given DC DPS, that might be pretty close to ok. really, the difference is cannons have CRF and beams don't, the non CRF dps is not nearly as important as what their DPS is wile using CRF. thats the actual DPS of those weapons, not the listed base.

its also the front loaded DPV nature of DHC damage that makes them the best, every other weapon deals damage so gradually that it does little more then keep pace with basic healing and regeneration. if DHC's didn't exist, this game wouldn't need TT at all.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 101
# 138
02-06-2013, 11:34 AM
i really think what makes cruisers that underpowered and unbalanced when compared to other ship classes, isnt the hull/shield cap (even admiting they should have a little more ) its that commander eng dont give cruisers what they need to cover a tac commander, and that we all know

also, ensign eng have 2 classes, eptsubsystem and eng team...

tacs have bo, faw, target subsystems, tac team*, THY, TS
*also tac team is vry good at tier 1 - the same benefict as tac team 3 (the most efficient ingame skill btw, it shouldnt have shield reroute ; well - we all know tacs are favoured ...

scis get even more abilities

what cruisers have special?

your answer : **dont come with healer boat, everyone knows a tac player or even a good sci player can **** a healer boat**


give eng boffs more skills choices, specially at ensign rank **also, why tracor beam is sci instead of eng, as it should be btw?** **and why tacs get apo with tractor beam immunity?**

not only cruisers but engs are currently underpowered
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,094
# 139
02-06-2013, 11:46 AM
It's hard not to look at it this way at times:

Folks like blowing crap up. Zippy fast ships are cool.

Okay, let's start with what kind of character would be good at blowing crap up. Tactical.
Okay, let's add the kind of ship that character would fly. Escort.
Hey now, let's add a character that can help that guy blow stuff up and even keep them alive. Science.
Hrmmm, guess they need a ship to fly as well. Science Vessel.
Well, we should probably give players three choices. Let's throw what's left into a career choice. Engineer.
Meh, suppose we need to give them a ship to fly as well. Cruiser.

That oozes awesomesauce, am I right? We've got guys in zippy ships blowing crap up and the guys doing their Bill Nye shizzle to help them out. Perfect.

What about those other guys? You know...those guys?

Well, we can just make the content so easy even they can do it. Right?

Sounds like a plan!
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 101
# 140
02-06-2013, 11:59 AM
escorts shouldnt be the fastest, weight in space doenst affect speed, should affect inertia : why cruisers, with their big engines, have lower impulse mod ?

why fed cruisers cant use dhc and klingon cruisers can ? (also most of them have cloak)

why cruisers stations suks ?

why cruisers cant be cool ?

if we continue having crappy cruisers ... everyone'll start using sci vessels, escorts, carriers and cruisers will be in the shipyards waiting devs give them some boost
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