Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 337
# 181
02-05-2013, 07:28 AM
Untill Wells/Korath appeared, it was unimaginable to even think going to fight against best Jem pilots out there, in 1vs1 lets say. When those ships came, I felt I could hold the line and even beat those. I was right. U cannot beat Zelda, Yoda, and the rest superb Jem pilots with Voyager for instance, or even Vesta, no matter how u do it right. Its just simple math. With Wells/Korath u can. Or, at least make them run for their money. So, I might say Wells/Korath are science counter for Jem. A little bit offtopic, but only my 2 cents.
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 182
02-05-2013, 09:30 AM
The Fleet Hohsus can take many good bugships out I have seen in kerrat one on one. It relies on ambushing them, but I have done it many times when they weren't fighting borg or other players and in full health, and it can get away without dying if the bug manages to RSP in time to stop your alpha.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 282
# 183
02-05-2013, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Your post was to long, but I take it your thanking us bug pilots for helping you, forcing you to become a better player. You sir are welcome, and I will be happy to show you how to PvP. We can setup a training course for you this weekend. Please PM me for my TS info so I can help you with your build.

Last edited by polie05; 02-05-2013 at 09:27 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 750
# 184
02-05-2013, 10:41 PM
(fix the bug ship by..)
-make the bug ship turn be +1 higher than the defiant

-Take her hull down or shield rating down (whatever feels like a more ship/story driven reason to do it)

(do it because..)
the bug gets a set that works on it and benifits from its "victory is life" (engine, deflector, shield) that set can now be upgraded

the bug gets to take advanatage of one of the better 2 pcs unversal console sets (it and its jemy friends)

and it got its great synergy weapons with the phased polaron

Its time to do it, it would make the end game escorts a bit more balanced

(side note
its been so funny reading all these guys try and water down how op the bug ship is. while then hoping on other forum topics and screaming about "cheese" and PVE players wanting to keep their cheese- is the bug ship the one pcs of cheese the so called elite PVP players cling too?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,845
# 185
02-05-2013, 10:53 PM
As annoying as it is that the JHAS outclasses my favorite Escort, and as silly as the ships stats are, it has never destroyed anyone with all resists up and a Tac Team for 400k damage.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,108
# 186
02-05-2013, 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polie05 View Post
Your post was to long, but I take it your thanking us bug pilots for helping you, forcing you to become a better player. You sir are welcome, and I will be happy to show you how to PvP. We can setup a training course for you this weekend. Please PM me for my TS info so I can help you with your build.
Did not, or could not? I'm thinking the latter, but I may be wrong. Certainly you missed context and content to an interesting level-perhaps you should buy a clue next time?

The discussion is on the Bugship, the Jem'hadar attack ship, and whether/why it's OP.

The "Whether" is obvious, the "Why" is obvious...

Oh, darn, this is probably too long for you to process...

screw it.

Fact: The Bug is OP, it's not going to change, and it's not going away.
FACT: PvP in this game is not in good shape, it's in decline.

these are UN RELATED facts-the bugship is NOT the reason for the decline of PvP in STO (nor the wells, nor the Korath, temp destroyers, Orbs/Tholian ships/etc.etc.etc.)

What these ships DO represent, is a symptom of why PvP in STO is in bad shape-the dev team never finished structuring it, and turned to shiny toys instead of solid development to hide, rather than address, the problem.

Now...

OPINION-mine, treat it as you will, at least I'm honest about it BEING an opinion...

"Winning in a Bugship isn't worth anything-it's like taking a T5 Raptor and beating on captains in T3 'free' ships-pointless and no test of skill, unless, that is, your opponent is ALSO in a Bugship."

There is no guts, therefore, there is no glory. It's dilithium farming and that's it.

all the rest of this 'discussion'/flame-war is basically irrelevant given the facts of the game in which we're playing.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

A Festival of Blood and Fire!

Blaming PvP for nerfs is like blaming Eudromaeosauria for today's urban crime rates.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
# 187
02-06-2013, 12:05 PM
ok im going to chime in on this since I own a bug ship and spent alot of money on the gear to make it what you guys call OP.


step 1. victory of life hardly hits (ive never seen it hit actually) and has been bugged for a while.

step 2(same set) this set even at mk 12 doesnt do much its weaker then borg, maco and HG sets, the dominion synergy is only off base polaron damage and not when consoles are added. personally I use 2 piece borg and fleet shield.

__________________________________________________ __________________________
Step 3
the bugs expensive compared to most ships true and its alot of power in good hands but I have killed in it and lost in it alike.

Step 4
pvp needs a overhaul even devs stated this one, alot of the main issues is also people dont shield tank well as they prematurally press buttons. this is a competition even if its a bad one. so learn to time.(not calling noobs just making points).

Step 4 yes jemmy does have best stats, but its also an espensive ship to build right, I mean I sank more then a grand into mine. also makes you think if your facing a good player with decent gear they should win all the time.

step 5 and thread.
this games about cost guys, they sell the jemmy to get lots of money, so either grind for stuff you want with ec missions and dil farming or pay. I get tired of being called a scrub when I fly a bug cause I put my own hard earned money into the game to get the accx3 weapons and all mk 12 everything. quit crying, and get better gear and learn to time heals and abilitys better, also dont cycle omega you guys waste it when you need to break tractors.


step 6. thank you for reading.
-Spells

|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 228
# 188
02-06-2013, 01:33 PM
The real issue about that ship (aside its superior tanking that makes no sense) is its turn rate.
Trying to point your cannons on a JHAS with a fleet Qin is like trying to do the same as a Vor'cha vs that same Qin. Vor'cha has 10 turnrate, Qin has 15, Bug has 20. It's on par with BoPs.

Fighting bugs as an escort is extremely frustrating because they badly outturn you. On top of that you can't hit and run cuz they also outspeed you unless they use slow engines.

Some people say that having only 1 sci console is a drawback but it really isn't. I cant see why you would prefer 800 more shield capacity over more firepower+even more turn rate (or passive mitigation).

It obsolete all other escorts by a large margin that's why it is OP.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 189
02-06-2013, 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beameddown View Post
(fix the bug ship by..)
the bug gets a set that works on it and benifits from its "victory is life" (engine, deflector, shield) that set can now be upgraded

the bug gets to take advanatage of one of the better 2 pcs unversal console sets (it and its jemy friends)

and it got its great synergy weapons with the phased polaron

Its time to do it, it would make the end game escorts a bit more balanced
I don't have a bug, but here's why I disagree:
- The bug set is not all that great. I'd much prefer to have a MACO or Omega set. But, currently, I don't even bother with any sets. The Fleet engines and shields are superior to the MACO and Omega sets. In fact, I'd prefer if a bug has the Jem'Hadar set...they are easier to kill.

- I would LOVE it if a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship were to equip the two ability consoles from the other Jem'Hadar ships. Why? Because that means they have to give up valuable console space (presumably passive consoles) for ability consoles. Think of it this way, a JHAS has 10 consoles. 5 are tactical, 4 are engineering, and 1 is science. Assuming you put 5 tactical consoles on, that leaves you 4 to play with. If you have Tachyokinetic Converter, Assimilated Module, and Zero-Point Energy Conduit (the latter is, I suppose, optional), that only gives you 2 consoles to play with. If the two Jem'Hadar consoles are used, now you have no consoles to work with. The ship is now much less tougher on the defensive side of things. Give up any of the three best offensive passive consoles, and now you're sacrificing offensive capability.

I also disagree that someone who gets an RA ship or Z-store/Fleet ship should get an equivalent ship to someone who played the lottery and got lucky or sucked a lot of money to get their ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 162
# 190
02-07-2013, 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by srspells View Post
ok im going to chime in on this since I own a bug ship and spent alot of money on the gear to make it what you guys call OP.


step 1. victory of life hardly hits (ive never seen it hit actually) and has been bugged for a while.

step 2(same set) this set even at mk 12 doesnt do much its weaker then borg, maco and HG sets, the dominion synergy is only off base polaron damage and not when consoles are added. personally I use 2 piece borg and fleet shield.

__________________________________________________ __________________________
Step 3
the bugs expensive compared to most ships true and its alot of power in good hands but I have killed in it and lost in it alike.

Step 4
pvp needs a overhaul even devs stated this one, alot of the main issues is also people dont shield tank well as they prematurally press buttons. this is a competition even if its a bad one. so learn to time.(not calling noobs just making points).

Step 4 yes jemmy does have best stats, but its also an espensive ship to build right, I mean I sank more then a grand into mine. also makes you think if your facing a good player with decent gear they should win all the time.

step 5 and thread.
this games about cost guys, they sell the jemmy to get lots of money, so either grind for stuff you want with ec missions and dil farming or pay. I get tired of being called a scrub when I fly a bug cause I put my own hard earned money into the game to get the accx3 weapons and all mk 12 everything. quit crying, and get better gear and learn to time heals and abilitys better, also dont cycle omega you guys waste it when you need to break tractors.


step 6. thank you for reading.
-Spells


I foolishly played mr niceguy as a fleetmate of mine wanted a bug so badly and spent money they really shouldnt have trying to get one and failed, after (many) packs i finally landed one and foolishly sold it for 1/3 the going price to this person only to have the jerk go and get that cloaked dread fed ship a week later and start using it, plus the person was on payment plan with me, they farmed kerrat all the time and payed me 10 mill every few days and now has RL issues and hasnt been on in over a month to pay me my other 50 mill.

So i then sank money into keys and sold packs too and just outright bought one for almost 300 mill ECs, then had to buy/sell more keys to work up full Mark XII stuff for it, and as we all know getting mark XII purple weapons with high ACC and purple tac consoles is very expensive, i didnt come near sinking a grand but i spent enough and i deserve to have a nice ship, i have a full time job and i budget a little money once a moneth to put in STO, and i do grind as well for my dilith and farm kerrat too, i also grind my arse off for my fleet with marks and dilith, so yeah i expect to have one of the best ships in the game after all that

Side note, is anybody else stuck with a fleet that doesnt help much while your grinding for the projects? I have over 2 million fleet credits earned for my fleet and only 2 other members are higher than me, the rest of them are at 1 mill and much lower, ive seen peeps that have been with us for months and only have 1-200k total earned, its quite aggravating.
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