Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 91
09-27-2009, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zomeguy View Post
Ah I thought you were referring to how easy Voyager defeated the borg where as in FC it took like 30 ships to defeat one cube. I see where you're coming from and to some extent I agree they were more scary when they had no personality just one big unfeeling, uncomprimising entity.
Voyager never had the power to fire of a single shot and be done with it. In Scorpion it was 8472, in Dark Frontier the conduit collapsed, in unimatrix 0 the borg turned against themselves, and in endgame it was a pathogen. The closest they came to blowing them up with conventional weapons was the beginning of Dark Frontier where Kim blew up a Borg probe by transporting a torpedo into the ship and destroying it from the inside, and again in endgame by using futurisic weapons on several cubes and a sphere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 92
09-27-2009, 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zomeguy View Post
Ah I thought you were referring to how easy Voyager defeated the borg where as in FC it took like 30 ships to defeat one cube. I see where you're coming from and to some extent I agree they were more scary when they had no personality just one big unfeeling, uncomprimising entity.
That is another issue altogether i have with the writers. And in FC, the battle lasted 30 seconds after the enterprise showed up to save the day while starfleet was getting slaughtered beforehand. Moral... if you see the borg, throw an enterpise at it.

But that's my gripe with the writers.
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# 93
09-27-2009, 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbot7777 View Post
First Contact did NOT nerf the Borg, jesus christ. First Contact was the best movie of all time, and the best ST movie imo. I loved all the classics, but when you combine Patrick Stewart with a new Enterprise(Enterpise E), and throw the Borg in the mix, with awesome parts and music, you have a winning combination.

Voyager did nerf them slightly but only because they were defeated at times or outsmarted by one single Intrepid class. Jean-Luc was assimilated and thus he knew the skill and tactics of the Borg. It was a special case, and I feel that without Picard at the lead, the Federation would have been lost.

It was not easy mode for them to defeat the Borg in First Contact, it took manipulation from Data to trick the Borg Queen.

Btw:

Picard: Mr Worf... I regret some of the things I said to you earlier.

Worf: Some?!

Picard: As a matter of fact, I think you're the bravest man I've ever known.

Worf: Thank you sir.
They were nerfed, but I agree that the movie rocked.
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# 94
09-27-2009, 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger_Dragon View Post
That is another issue altogether i have with the writers. And in FC, the battle lasted 30 seconds after the enterprise showed up to save the day while starfleet was getting slaughtered beforehand. Moral... if you see the borg, throw an enterpise at it.

But that's my gripe with the writers.
That's the answer to all of the Federations problems....throw the Enterprise at it. If the Enterprise would have been more involved in the Dominon War....there wouldn't have BEEN a war. If the Enterprise had been thrown 70,000 lightyears from home, it would have kicked the Caretakers butt and sent itself back. The Enterprise is like Chuck Norris....The Enterprise doesn't move around in space, it makes Space move around it!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95 Re:
09-27-2009, 04:37 PM
In reality, the Borg have been nerfed by the Star Trek producers / writers. At Wolf 359 one Borg cube totally decimated a Starfleet fleet, and only saved by a trick by the Enterprise. In First Contact the Borg were getting a little bit more cut up, but it wasn't until the quantom torpedoes did the cube really get it's butt kicked.

In Voyager, a small Intrepid-class vessel was able to outsmart, outwhit, and outlast not just a Borg cube, but the Borg queen herself. Right....

I feel that the Queen did sort of bring the Borg down a level. Instead of really going up against a trillion or so drones, all you now had to do was kill the Queen. Yawn. It's like having a world full of zombies, but if you just kill the little baby zombie, you are safe.

First Contact was by far NOT the best movie out there ... I think that most people agree that WoK or TVH were the best, at least in terms of money gained and long-term fandom. I personally feel that First Contact, Generations, and Insurrection were just episodes they turned into a movie. Yeah it was dangerous for the crew, but you knew they were going to make it out alive by talking some technobabble and Data singing a song ....

My personal favorite is Nemesis. While one of the cheesy ending graphics (where Shinzon is stabbed by Picard, you can clearly see the bar Picard used to stab Shinzon move over six inches out of nowhere), and I think the Picard-clone was a bit ... odd ... it had a great tone, great graphics, and involved the best Star Trek race ... Romulans.

Of course, I'm not biased in any way, shape or form ... LONG LIVE THE STAR EMPIRE!!!!!
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# 96
09-27-2009, 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkSkin View Post
That's the answer to all of the Federations problems....throw the Enterprise at it. If the Enterprise would have been more involved in the Dominon War....there wouldn't have BEEN a war. If the Enterprise had been thrown 70,000 lightyears from home, it would have kicked the Caretakers butt and sent itself back. The Enterprise is like Chuck Norris....The Enterprise doesn't move around in space, it makes Space move around it!
The enterprise doesn't fight, it toys with its prey by pretending to be damaged.
When klingons go to bed at night, they look in their closet for the enterprise

... i see a new thread starting here
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# 97
09-27-2009, 06:05 PM
I am on it!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
09-27-2009, 06:21 PM
the enteprise killed the cube in FC easily because picard knew the cube inside and out. Each cube has an identical weakness. since picard was the first person to attack this weakness, it had not been changed. Cube go bye-bye
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# 99
09-27-2009, 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkSkin View Post
That's the answer to all of the Federations problems....throw the Enterprise at it. If the Enterprise would have been more involved in the Dominon War....there wouldn't have BEEN a war. If the Enterprise had been thrown 70,000 lightyears from home, it would have kicked the Caretakers butt and sent itself back. The Enterprise is like Chuck Norris....The Enterprise doesn't move around in space, it makes Space move around it!
You're forgetting that if the Enterprise WAS thrown far from home, they would have been able to rig the array so that it would blow up thrity seconds after it sent them home, thus saving them and the ocampa.
It was a really unliekly way for Voyager to get stranded
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# 100
09-27-2009, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT_IS_GREEN View Post
the enteprise killed the cube in FC easily because picard knew the cube inside and out. Each cube has an identical weakness. since picard was the first person to attack this weakness, it had not been changed. Cube go bye-bye
In the same regard, the borg adapted to the 1701-D superdeflectorweapon when they assimilated picard, and one fact established in the series was that the cubes had no particular weak points. The away team had to attack multiple points in a short period of time to slow the cube down. I don't necessarily buy that picard knew of the one critical point to kill a cube. If anything he would know the cube would need to be incinerated all over at once.

I like to think that if a cubic meter was left of a cube, it would eventually rebuild itself whole... in a few centuries.

Something i always reasoned with was the enterprise simply coordinated fire and blasted a tunnel through the cube, combined with quantum torpedoes, the result was an explosive overload the borg weren't able to adapt to.

This brings up two arguments:

Why did it take the enterprise to focus that kind of firepower and not the 30 ships that first attacked?

When Quantum torpedoes can be loaded on any starfleet ship (as proven by USS Lakota, DS9) why weren't they used before? Nothing about the torpedo seemed experimental or secret.

However those two arguments i'll lend to the same idiotic admiral that deliberately left the enterprise out of the battle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IT_IS_GREEN View Post
You're forgetting that if the Enterprise WAS thrown far from home, they would have been able to rig the array so that it would blow up thrity seconds after it sent them home, thus saving them and the ocampa.
It was a really unliekly way for Voyager to get stranded
Or it would all end up being a charade by Q for his trial against humanity and he would zap them back again
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