Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 201
02-07-2013, 08:53 AM
The Defiant-R could be obtained for free before free to play. While it was a great escort it wasn't the best and it certainly wasn't in the same class of ridiculousness currently possed by the bug ship. It was the most stylish though, until MVAM came along.

The Jem ship is better in nearly every way that counts (oh but only a little bit!) and natural progression is no reason for something to outclass everything else for any amount of time. All ship can be destroyed but there is no sense in a ship being so much stronger than others in it's class.

The game needs the variety that balance encourages. The bug hurts variety. Hurts balance.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 121
# 202
02-07-2013, 12:27 PM
Wait! What? Someone here spent $1000 on getting the Jem Hadar bug ship? Wow, that's a gambling problem. I've spent 20$ here and there, but $1000? Wow. Since the bug ship is probably the most powerful escort in the game, if you spent $1000 to get it, well I guess pay to win is true.

Last edited by chk231; 02-07-2013 at 12:59 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 203
02-07-2013, 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsupreme79 View Post
Again, you are trying to justify a pay to win scheme, because you waste money on lockbox ships that are at the least 50% superior to the highest end fleet ships. U are also wasting money on cstore crap for consoles. This is the definition of pay to win, the bane of gaming. Of course this only becomes a problem in pvp,, and unfortunately this money is spent for pvp and the purchased ability to have a great advantage.

Just realize that any ego boost you get is in your own mind, becausr most people will give you (the pay to win scrub) no credit or respect when they recognise the ship in question and its pilot are made of cheese. I blame sto for this, its sad really, coulda had some decent pvp


The 1st thing you need to ask yourself is this.

While knowing this game is geared towards making money and people spend money on it to gain an advantage, why then do you continue to play it when you have such a problem with it? It may be just a game, but its just like life,,,everyone does what they have to do to win.

As far as ego boost,,,your creating a strawman argument now,,,i never once stated that this boost my ego or makes me feel better cause i "payed" for "some" of the stuff i have, (as ive grinded like others for some of the other stuff)

So hence,,,your justification is this,," you get to drop money that i dont have wah wah wah,,,your only stroking your own ego wah wah wha,,,,,,ect ect.....
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 193
# 204
02-07-2013, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxadb View Post
Oh, so you don't want to put resources, work or time in, and you want the same gear that the guys that do? Wow. I mean WOW lol. Sure, JHAS currently and objectively is the best escort ship in the game. But so was the defiant before JHAS was introduced. Was defiant free? Was it the same as any other ship in the game? Of course not. It was better. It had more console slots and better turn rate. That's why ppl wanted it. And paid for it. Or put in work and time. Did ppl cry "oh cryptic you screwed us over with that defiant ship bwaaaa"? Or "you pay-to-win- sons of borg, you paid to win"? Or "Defiant is better than my <insert random T3 ship here> and it needs to be nerfed"? Probably. Dunno. Wasn't there.

So is JHAS currently the best escort ship in the game? Sure. Until the next best thing comes along. Is it OP? Does it win in all circumstances and scenarios? Nope, not by far. In fact, as some have already pointed out it's probably about 60% captain, 40% ship. A lacking one or the other means you'll try another time. Does it have a counter? Sure. Get a cruiser or a sci ship and tank it for a nice draw if you like. Or put together a winning build for some other ship. Or put in resources, work and time and buy it. You can do it by putting in any two of the aforementioned. So either do that, or cry us all a river.

Oh and btw, I'm strictly free-to-play. And yes, I like my JHAS. Except I like my BOP on my other toon even more - no BOPs for feds tho, so JHAS yes please.

Edit: And please don't think JHAS is invincible vs other escorts. it's not. I know how to take it out, even an advanced build that has superior fire power, tanking ability and turn rate. If you don't, that's not my problem - as they say, learn to play.

actually i DID put the time and the money to get the ship as you seem to have missed when you read my post. thats how i know that its OP. also i never said that i didnt have builds to kill bugs. i have one for each fed toon of mine. in matter of fact my best build is on my adv escort as its my fav ship, so actually read the posts you quote before using the lame "learn to play" bull thats used every time someone says somethings op

p.s. i also said that it was really hard and long to grind for the ship not impossible, and thouse that get the ship from exchange cant be free to play(not saying you since i dont know how you got it) since someone had to buy it first. also i belive i said that gear helps but doent make a massive diferance since the differant marks arent much better than the one below(like 5-10% if that)

Last edited by silverashes1; 02-07-2013 at 06:52 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 282
# 205
02-08-2013, 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
"I have spent time/money/sacrifice therefore I deserve to be better". At some level, you believe that you have earned the right to easy victories because of your investments. This kind of thinking is the complete opposite of competitive gaming. In any official competition, all players are provided with equivalent equipment. Be it a Starcraft 1v1 or the Olympic games, it is a fundamental part of the rules that all competitors start with the same tools so that the only thing being challenged is their skill. If you can buy an edge in equipment, then the game ceases to be fair and the winner cannot in any reasonable fashion be considered more skilled or more worthy of winning.

Really what they need to do for this game is to divorce PVE equipment grinding from PVP competition. Every PVP player should have the same options available to them. But they won't do that because some of the biggest spenders in the game are people dropping hundreds of dollars to gain that 5% edge or unique ship/console and stomp on people who didn't spend as much.

Meh.


You obviously have never competed in the Olympics, therefore you have not earned the right to talk about it. You analogy is completely wrong, and no not everyone/everything is equal in the Olympics. As a past competitor I have first hand knowledge of this.

It also does NOT take a years worth of grinding, Broken got his last bug after 2 months of grinding, and he was not hitting it that hard. He bought another one at the current exchange prices.

Last edited by polie05; 02-08-2013 at 02:35 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,542
# 206
02-08-2013, 03:54 AM
i would love to know how people actually grind EC so easily
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
# 207
02-08-2013, 03:56 AM
sell stf drops get a capital of 50 mil then buy low and sell high on exchange ive bought all my best gear doing this repeating same steps.


tour,stf drops and foundry missions, also grind dil sell keys.
-Spells

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Fleet Leader

Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,558
# 208
02-08-2013, 05:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polie05 View Post
You obviously have never competed in the Olympics, therefore you have not earned the right to talk about it. You analogy is completely wrong, and no not everyone/everything is equal in the Olympics. As a past competitor I have first hand knowledge of this.

It also does NOT take a years worth of grinding, Broken got his last bug after 2 months of grinding, and he was not hitting it that hard. He bought another one at the current exchange prices.
But STO PvP is NOT the Olympics, in fact it's not even significant to the game itself (if it were, don'cha think they'd have put some actual effort into development??)

for PvP to be a "Sport" the outcomes have to MATTER, and to be quite blunt, taking a motorcycle to a bicycle race (Jem ship in the public ques) isn't a display of skill, it's a display of crutch. Basically, were STO PvP treated by the Developers as a "Sport" it would have to be divided into classes, and the Jem'bug would wind up, not in the "Escorts" class or the "Tier 5 class", but in it's OWN class-separate from the Fleet ships, and largely separated from the other Lockbox ships as well-because it IS that much better a piece of hardware.

Which would mean, treated "Like the Olympics" you'd have a hard time finding/scheduling a match-because while it's gotten MORE common than it was, it's still rare enough that the bulk of matches PuGged don't have one, and when one IS there, it seriously unbalances things unless there's a matching one on the other side.

What you're not getting (and will likely never quite get) is that when a Bugship comes in and Pwns in an Arena or C&H, the players around him don't think "Wow, he's good", they think, "Wow, Pay to Win."

Sometimes with the appellation "Douche" if hte jem pilot does the whole 'trash-talk' routine or starts hanging around the spawn area.


Glory is not derived from easy victories, esp. if you're out to pump your reputation with living opposition. It's derived from taking near-equal to statistically inferior gear, and winning.

There is no "Misunderstanding competition" here-and your bugship doesn't earn you respect, because it's so easy even a moron can run it well.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 209
02-08-2013, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by srspells View Post
sell stf drops get a capital of 50 mil then buy low and sell high on exchange ive bought all my best gear doing this repeating same steps.


tour,stf drops and foundry missions, also grind dil sell keys.
-Spells


Also farm kerrat,,,if done right you can drop some good stuff every now and then i have a fleetmate who can easily make 10 mill a day or more just messing with kerrat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 210
02-08-2013, 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
But STO PvP is NOT the Olympics, in fact it's not even significant to the game itself (if it were, don'cha think they'd have put some actual effort into development??)

for PvP to be a "Sport" the outcomes have to MATTER, and to be quite blunt, taking a motorcycle to a bicycle race (Jem ship in the public ques) isn't a display of skill, it's a display of crutch. Basically, were STO PvP treated by the Developers as a "Sport" it would have to be divided into classes, and the Jem'bug would wind up, not in the "Escorts" class or the "Tier 5 class", but in it's OWN class-separate from the Fleet ships, and largely separated from the other Lockbox ships as well-because it IS that much better a piece of hardware.

Which would mean, treated "Like the Olympics" you'd have a hard time finding/scheduling a match-because while it's gotten MORE common than it was, it's still rare enough that the bulk of matches PuGged don't have one, and when one IS there, it seriously unbalances things unless there's a matching one on the other side.

What you're not getting (and will likely never quite get) is that when a Bugship comes in and Pwns in an Arena or C&H, the players around him don't think "Wow, he's good", they think, "Wow, Pay to Win."

Sometimes with the appellation "Douche" if hte jem pilot does the whole 'trash-talk' routine or starts hanging around the spawn area.


Glory is not derived from easy victories, esp. if you're out to pump your reputation with living opposition. It's derived from taking near-equal to statistically inferior gear, and winning.

There is no "Misunderstanding competition" here-and your bugship doesn't earn you respect, because it's so easy even a moron can run it well.


i dont hang around spawn areas however someone did it to me the other day and i blew her up in 10 seconds,,,she didnt spawn camp me anymore The bug is not as OP as your making it out,,,you sound as if someone on the opposing team in the arena has a bug that means your team is doomed,,,that is crap. As many on here have stated yes it helps to have a good ship,,,good consoles/weapons/ and ship build,,but ultimately its TEAMWORK that wins in the arena,,,i have a bug with almost all mark XII purple everything and that ship does no good when i get on a crap team that wont communicate or call targets. Fleet patrol,,fleet defiant,,bug,,heavy escort carrier doesnt matter if your on a team that communicates and all plays their part you can do heavy damage in all those ships.
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