Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 161
# 21
02-07-2013, 11:42 PM
If you're going to kill the Admiral rank, then you really need to go full bore. No accolades, no grandfathering, no fleet nonsense, everyone is a captain. If you want to make up an Admiral title in your fleet system, fine, but you don't get the pips and NPCs still call you Captain.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,208
# 22
02-08-2013, 12:21 AM
If anything, we will get Admirals and Fleet Admirals where we can control ships to fight with us. Having the leaders fighting with their armies goes back thousands of years and it provides a great morale boost to the troops. This was mainly due to effective communication being non-existent so leaders had to be with their troops to make sensible tactics. It didn't make sense to have someone travel by horse to HQ which is 100 miles away from the battle and travel back to the battle to give orders.

So considering the state of Starfleet and KDF where they have obviously went to a less restrictive organization than Kirk's Starfleet, then having Admirals fight on the front lines makes as much sense as everything else. It makes more sense than having crew in bikinis and piloting ships that won't be made for hundreds of years.

There is also the problem that not everyone wants to be a Captain. They want to have the power. My character is an exiled Borg that wants to be able to influence the Federation's policy on the Borg. The Borg is a great source of technology and has immense knowledge of extinct alien species. There is also the problem that the Borg is a race of victims. So destroying the Borg is just a waste of potential and mass genocide. As a Captain, my main character would have no influence over such matters, but as Fleet Admiral she would have enough influence to start her plans of making the Borg a force of good in the universe. Forcing everyone to be captains would be destroying some of the RP potential that the game has and would limit the potential of people's characters. I certainly couldn't have come up with my character's goals of the future if everyone was stuck at captain. Rank should be a CHOICE not FORCED onto people.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 173
# 23
02-08-2013, 12:33 AM
Option 1: Rename the ranks and everyone becomes Captain

Option 2: Expand the game system to allow command of more than one ship either on-screen so that you can command ships like you command bridge officers on the ground.
Allowing limited customisation options with weapons etc.

Or, off screen via the same Duty Officer system except you command around ships as well.


Ideally, 2 would be awesome and if you combine the on-screen / off-screen methods you add a whole new dynamic to the game with new loadouts and stuff to grind for.
However, anyone with even a brief look at Cryptics track record will see they dont have a hope in hell of doing this even if they tried.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 61
# 24 Ranks
02-08-2013, 12:36 AM
Never like players having a high rank then Captain but I am beliver Commodore should have been included in the game.
"Of course you know, this means war!" Bugs Bunny
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 532
# 25 Lore or Legend
02-08-2013, 12:49 AM
The question is about whether players want to stick to Lore or go for Legend. A Lore based game would only have Captains of varying levels of expertise and authority. A Legend-based game would allow players to become the Admrials of the Fleet. The former is best for RP since all series had Captain as the hightest rank for the main character (minus Admiral Kirk in the first three movies). All Admirals in game would only be NPCs giving orders to the Captains.

A Legend-based would allow for the current ranking system, but would have to add more for Admirals to do in game. Some additions are the space-based solo team (as mentioned before) that allows the Admiral to have other ships with him/her during solo missions (this would require end-game content for Admirals). Another addition would be for ship-based Doff missions. Instead of having individuals doing tasks, the Admiral would have ships to give orders to complete missions. This could be an expansion of the current Doff system that opens up at Rear Admiral or higher rank. The player would be issued a small number of Doff-based ships and then could buy more to build up a Doff Fleet. This method could even allow for Doff-based space wars and challenges.

Either way, something would need to be added to make any rank addition or rank change worthwhile to the game.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,050
# 26
02-08-2013, 01:35 AM
I actually have two gripes with the current system, even though the second is not that severe.
1. I think the maximum rank we achieve should be captain.
Kirk was actually a desk-jockey and was only allowed to command the Enterprise because of crisies that occured and even warned Picard to to get promoted.

2. The Klingon rank system makes no sense.
We've seen that Kargan's second in command in TNG:"A Matter of Honor" was a Lieutenant (which is one step below the captain rank in the Army system).
And we know there are Colonels in the KDF as well, like Colonel Worf in Star Trek 6.
Make the Klingon Rank system Army-based not Navy-based.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,043
# 27
02-08-2013, 08:39 AM
I think alot of you have the wrong impression on what an Admiral does. I was in the Navy for 11 years and my first ship was an aircraft carrier. Whenever we deployed we had an admiral with us.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 994
# 28
02-08-2013, 09:25 AM
Regarding being placed in command of a ship after the tutorial at Lieutenant rank, such a thing wouldn't be unexpected in a time of war. You keep cranking out ships, but experienced officers are hard to come by. You take what you can get, if the best you've got is a relatively green lieutenant, well that's how it is. In naval tradition, whoever is in command is referred to as "captain" regardless of formal rank.

So, you are captain of a starship with a formal rank of lieutenant. This happens to Bright Noa in the original Gundam series, having become "captain" of White Base despite being an ensign because he was the only officer left alive. EFSF left him in command because they didn't have a lot of choice. There's even examples in Trek lore, like Commander Sisko being appointed captain of the Defiant. Or alternate JJ-verse Kirk becoming captain of the Enterprise despite still being more or less a cadet (Maybe a lieutenant too like Saavik? This was all rather unclear).

Regardless, this breaks down at the point where you have 1000s of Admirals running about. That's just how it has to be in an MMO though. Everybody's the Great Hero. Did we all save the Enterprise-C? Did we all crack the mystery of New Romulus? Simultaneously yes and no. Yes from the perspective of us as players, no from the perspective of our characters. To our characters those were all unique experiences to them, and that is the distinction you have to make. Our character has been rewarded Vice Admiral rank for outstanding and unique achievements, all these other mooks don't matter. Other players have done all the same things we did.

If you want better role play immersion, set your rank pips to Captain. I don't let all my Boffs run around with Commander pips, that's silly. Would be nice if you could change how NPCs refer to you though.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,772
# 29
02-08-2013, 09:28 AM
Clearly Starfleet believes in handing out promotions rather than raises. My Vice Admiral still has a salary of 0 EC a month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
As far as the game is concerned, there is only one chosen one. There are not currently thousands of Vice Admirals just a few. Its not like everyone stopped the Doomsday Machine, discovered the Undine were being influenced by the Iconians, and many other instances in the game. Only one crew did it.
Yet that "Admiral" is still getting ordered around by Commanders and Captains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newplayerguy7 View Post
And all of those positions were a sort of semi-retirement status for those involved.
"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge, of that ship. Because as long as you're there, you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk

Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
Also, how do you know that all the people you team up with are Vice Admirals?
Are you familiar with the concept of uniforms and rank insignia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
IAs far as my main character is concerned, she is the only Vice Admiral that goes around saving the galaxy since she is the best person at the job. Being stuck behind a desk is a huge waste of her talents and being stuck as Captain wouldn't allow her to make orders that best reflect the current situation.
Your Captain never "make orders" for anything. You just take orders - from Commanders to Captains, they all outrank you and make the command decisions.

This is especially egregious if you end up at level 50 from DOffing before finishing the Klingon War arc, and are a Vice Admiral for practically every mission.

"Retreat! We'll cover you!"
"I can go toe to toe with Tactical Cubes. YOU retreat. I'll wipe out their pathetic fleet and wait for you to come back."

I love the scenarios where there's supposed to be endless waves that Starfleet is barely holding off, only I wipe out each wave in a few seconds and the Starfleet ships just kind of mill about. Yes, clearly I need to flee so you can sacrifice yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan5000 View Post
I think alot of you have the wrong impression on what an Admiral does. I was in the Navy for 11 years and my first ship was an aircraft carrier. Whenever we deployed we had an admiral with us.
Did this Admiral captain the ship, or did you have an actual Captain in charge of the ship? Isn't the Admiral supposed to be in charge of the overall deployment/campaign? I'm pretty sure he didn't pick up a shotgun and lead the ground drops either.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk

Last edited by darkjeff; 02-08-2013 at 09:43 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 30
02-08-2013, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by causalityeffect View Post
Option 1: Rename the ranks and everyone becomes Captain
Or simply unlock the title so everyone can chose what their rank is, just like you can chose how many pips on your uniform and your title. If I could set it so that every NPC refers to me as Captain no matter my in game rank I'd be happy.
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