Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 429
# 181
02-07-2013, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
Less power drain equals more damage. I really believe all beams need is an overhaul/fix to the way weapon drain works. When used in conjunction with Nadion Inversion (turns off drain), beam arrays do quite respectable damage if you can get a bunch of them on target. Maybe, maybe, they could use a reduction in damage falloff rate in acknowledgement of the fact that most ships which would want to use them have really poor agility. Which would again equate to more damage on average.



Uh. What. A beam array broadside cruiser will always want their side shield to the enemy, which means the same shield facing is always taking damage. These ships are not agile enough to choose where to get hit.
Nadion Inversion has a cd of 3 min its too long and by more dmg I meant the basic dmg
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 182
02-07-2013, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakija879 View Post
Nadion Inversion has a cd of 3 min its too long and by more dmg I meant the basic dmg
I know Inversion has a 3 minute cooldown and presently isn't good for much.I was using it as a way to demonstrate that the problem with beams is the power drain. Because when you turn off the drain (for a very brief time, yes) the damage output goes up enormously.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,333
# 183
02-07-2013, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Single cannons even do more than beams. The damage type says less but the DPS is higher. DPS is what you need to wear down shields or destroy hull faster. Beams don't do hardly crap to hull. In the canon Star Trek world, cannons and beams do the same amount of damage with different looking effects. The only reason players tend to arm all their escorts and battlecruisers with cannons is because they are the quickest way to deliver damage. This has caused an imbalance and made people choose one type of ship over another. If weapon types were more balanced, then you would see more beams being employed on escorts and battlecruisers and more ships would be able to share in the damage dealing.
On an overcomming resistance standpoint, beams actually do more than single cannons/turrets because the damaged is lumped into one hit. If a target has low resistance or the proc' per shot is for damage, then yes, single cannons do more. Honestly, single cannons, turrets and beams should be pretty much lumped into one group of its own: Not DHC/DC.

Also, it is my opinion (take it for what you will) that cruisers shouldn't be running any of the 45' arc weapons, even a slightly above average turning Excelsior would have problems using them effectively.

Last edited by whamhammer1; 02-07-2013 at 10:42 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 94
# 184
02-07-2013, 12:27 PM
beams need nothing more than a change to their power drain. it's expected that anyone running beams is running 6 of them. it should be possible with 125/100 power to maintain 95+ power (cruiser only) while firing 6 beams.

easiest way to handle this would be to give a -power drain when using beams passive to cruisers.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 747
# 185
02-07-2013, 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
Uh. What. A beam array broadside cruiser will always want their side shield to the enemy, which means the same shield facing is always taking damage. These ships are not agile enough to choose where to get hit.
When you're broadsiding, the fact that you're doing so means you can orbit the target and get top defence values while doing it. Something escorts cannot so when they sit and shoot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixa1 View Post
could be to give a -power drain when using beams passive to cruisers.
D Stahl mentioned in one of his recent interviews that ships will be getting warp cores that give ships different powers.
Perhaps they'll play a part in it.

With the constant flow of new ships coming out of the shipyards, our next major update to ships will be to incorporate warp core design into how a ship performs in combat and what types of power it can bring to a fight.
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Devs, need Fleet Orion Marauder and Dacoit please! :-)

Using - Bulwark, Voth Fighter. Favs - Fleet Corsair, Mogh, Bastion, Nicor, JHEC, JAS
Some others - Orion Marauder, Chel Grett, Guramba, Risian Corvette, Risian Cruiser
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,333
# 186
02-08-2013, 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eradicator84 View Post
When you're broadsiding, the fact that you're doing so means you can orbit the target and get top defence values while doing it. Something escorts cannot so when they sit and shoot.
Never seen an escort just sit and shoot. What I have seen is for them to turn and weave to take advantage of shield facings in between firings of major weapon volleys, they have no problem keeping up their defensive values. Escorts are more than capable of constant fire on a target while keeping the ability to give a good shield facing when they need it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 49
# 187
02-08-2013, 03:14 PM
Riddle me this.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...erArcCrits.jpg

The yellowed arcs should have a higher crit rating than cannons, and with the overlapping effect, a combined assault from beam overload should strip shields unquestionably in any encounter. In the hands of a Tac Officer, such a fitted cruiser should be able to contend with a tac officer in an escort, provided they can fly a disciplined broadside.

Is it the ideal solution? Probably not, but it is a sensible one as far as "concentrating" the firepower of beams, go. As far as dual beams go, however, I think maybe the arc could be narrowed slightly in exchange for a significant damage increase to let them at LEAST compare to DCs (not necessarily DHC's).

Probably not the solution y'all were looking for, but providing one is sure better than arguing over one. At least with more ideas in the box, you might be able to construct something out of sensible components, rather than trying to build a firearm entirely out of wood.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,333
# 188
02-08-2013, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarekcyphus View Post
Riddle me this.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...erArcCrits.jpg

The yellowed arcs should have a higher crit rating than cannons, and with the overlapping effect, a combined assault from beam overload should strip shields unquestionably in any encounter. In the hands of a Tac Officer, such a fitted cruiser should be able to contend with a tac officer in an escort, provided they can fly a disciplined broadside.

Is it the ideal solution? Probably not, but it is a sensible one as far as "concentrating" the firepower of beams, go. As far as dual beams go, however, I think maybe the arc could be narrowed slightly in exchange for a significant damage increase to let them at LEAST compare to DCs (not necessarily DHC's).

Probably not the solution y'all were looking for, but providing one is sure better than arguing over one. At least with more ideas in the box, you might be able to construct something out of sensible components, rather than trying to build a firearm entirely out of wood.
What happens why the cruisers are outside that proposed arc, continued negligible damage? What about those of us who use DBB, should all of our shots just go bouncey on the escorts? Not trying to shoot down you concept necessarily, but the problem with beams is that they do piddly amounts throughout the whole arc (single cannons too) and are just bouncing off of escorts.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8
# 189
02-10-2013, 09:46 AM
Another thing that would change a lot is giving different ranges to different weapons. What if DHC only could shoot 5 km while beams could shoot 15?
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 318
# 190
02-12-2013, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twg042370 View Post
Because beams weren't cutting it anymore for my Science captain... Target whatsystems now?... I switched to an all turret build.

It is the shizznit. I'm dealing far more more in the way of ouchies to the game's mobs than before with beam arrays, and that's with the weapons that are supposed to suck and you should only use for the proc. That's in regular play, I can't imagine it being any better in PvP or STFs.

To sum up: Beams do need some help.
Yeah. I recently tried out a 5 turret/1 torpedo build on a sci ship and was surprised by how dramatically the rapid fire cannons skill upped the ship's DPS. A single lt. commander tac officer basically turns the ship into an omni-directional laser hose. Overall DPS was higher than when I used 5 beams instead and I got procs and criticals more often. I'm going to try this on a cruiser later today, but I'm pretty sure a six-turret/two torp setup on a cruiser's going to be pretty much the same.

When the weakest cannon in the game is far more useful in general than any beam weapon, there is a problem.
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