Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 373
# 11
02-09-2013, 11:44 AM
borticuscryptic
That sounds like a good solution that will leave the cryo gun powerful and unique in pvp but not badly overpowered, as it will become weak against shields but remain stronger against health than an energy pulsewave. Note that it will be stronger even comparing enemies with energy resistance armor to the energy pulsewave and cryo resistance armor to the cryo pulsewave if you make this proposed change, because damage resistance debuffs effect a higher percentile shift in resistances at low numerical resistance values than they do at high numerical resistance values, because of diminishing returns. In addition, please consider adding Cold Damage to the list of damage types debuffed by Dampening Field. This loophole-ing of the sci's best defense against pulsewaves is part of what makes the cryo gun overpowered, and contributes to the balance mismatch of tac vs sci.

towards the OP
Level Design: Invisible Walls in Shanty Town
The season 7 (I think) changes to Shanty Town added a number of invisible walls that don't do much against the major pathing exploits in the map, but do make it harder for everyone to navigate around... ironically, many of the invisible walls don't actually make it much harder for caitians to move around, but do prevent normal people from moving freely around the map WITHOUT exploiting unintended pathing methods, and some of them are completely counterintuitive, with obviously open paths like the gaps under the ramp leading up to the overlook of the spawn point being closed off by invisible walls that don't seem to serve any purpose.

Last edited by guriphu; 02-09-2013 at 11:50 AM.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,052
# 12
02-09-2013, 11:47 AM
Quote:
In addition, please consider adding Cold Damage to the list of damage types debuffed by Dampening Field.
This sounds reasonable. It would make sense to add all Environmental damage types to Dampening Field (Cold, Fire, Radiation, etc).
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Cryptic - Systems Design
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 399
# 13
02-09-2013, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
This sounds reasonable. It would make sense to add all Environmental damage types to Dampening Field (Cold, Fire, Radiation, etc).
How would that make sense in the STO universe, though? I don't see how you can "dampen" cool, heat, and radiation without shields or EV suits.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 733
# 14
02-09-2013, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Our plan is to examine the max Cold Resist a player can reasonably obtain (probably via Nukara EV Suits), and we will then use that as a baseline for Max Resists when compared against what can be obtained for a standard energy type like Phaser or Disruptor.
Don't forget winter tribbles.

Although I would say the general idea of a Tac being able to use any type of shotgun and one shot anyone except a person running all their defensive buffs at once is a bigger issue than the cold gun.


Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The jump height pathing exploits are very difficult to address, and artificially limiting a Trait of this type on a select subset of maps just doesn't make much sense. We are exploring our options.
If you do something that involves adding walls, please make them visible. The corners of some buildings in Shanty Town in the main bridge area that used to allow players more room to go around them got invisible walls added, and it's very annoying to run into something you just have to know is there, without seeing it. It also makes it so that people can't use what looks like a viable way to get up to a higher level, because it has an invisible wall blocking it.



Speaking of Shanty Town and blockages, there's a lot of little spots where ramps that should allow people to just run straight up to the next level require jumping. There's some sort of invisible step in these places that causes annoyance every time.
Join Date: July 29 2008
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 373
# 15
02-09-2013, 12:05 PM
Borticuscryptic: that sounds like an good and lasting solution, and would also make the power more intuitive, given that STO's ranged attacks have expanded to include all of those, with the introduction of Tholians.

entnx01:
Technobabble solution: Dampening field drains the energy from the attacker's guns, diminishing their effectiveness at shooting people.

Rhetorical question: How do you "dampen" antiprotons, plasma, or relativistic pulses of subatomic particles (polaron, tetryon)? So far as I know, only phaser and disruptor actually fire a phase-locked wave that could be "dampened" using an inverse waveform, yet Trek's dampening fields reliably disable weapons that, from their names, should be powered by pure brute force.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 460
# 16
02-09-2013, 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Does that sound like an agreeable solution to the Ground PvP community?
Yes, yes yes. This is how PvP balance should be done in both space and ground, as well as in other games. PvE and PvP are vastly different to each other in every MMO I've seen out there, and having them both play by the same rules never works.

It turns into another balancing nightmare though, which I can understand why it wouldn't be completely overhauled like that. But this is a good thing to do for this weapon. Will this also affect the CRM-200 you get from the Breen missions? I'll assume so, but I'm not sure it would since you mention "this weapon".

Quote:
You forgot that the CRM-200 is in the same boat. It deals Cold damage and unless you're in an EV suit, you have no defense against it (other than trying to not be in LoS of the player using it).
The issue with that gun is that it does pitiful amounts of damage compared to even an Mk X blue weapon. It's only really effective in slowing a target down if two or three people use it. It's mostly a parlor trick weapon, but can be extremely deadly if used by the right person against the right target.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 17
02-09-2013, 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The jump height pathing exploits are very difficult to address, and artificially limiting a Trait of this type on a select subset of maps just doesn't make much sense. We are exploring our options.
Just don't take the easy way please (nerfing jump height). It's fine in most areas of the game.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,873
# 18
02-09-2013, 12:48 PM
Yes finally some acknowledgement that the cryo launcher issue is being looked in to. Thanks Borticus, great to see ground will finally start getting fixed soon.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 373
# 19
02-09-2013, 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The jump height pathing exploits are very difficult to address, and artificially limiting a Trait of this type on a select subset of maps just doesn't make much sense. We are exploring our options.
Rather than trying to address the exploits directly, either by changing the passive or by radical map redesign, how about working through the map with an experienced caitian ground pvper who can show you all the places where cats can get up the walls, flagging those locations, and then going through in a map editor and adding a little ladder or stacked boxes in that place, so that anybody, not just cats, can path up or over that obstacle? The big issue isn't that cats can do it, but that everybody else cannot.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 186
# 20
02-09-2013, 01:46 PM
trait: feline instincts / dodging
Issue: the caitian trait feline instincts is the only trait on ground that provides a dodge bonus.. since dodging (taking-half damage) is the most important stat on ground caitians are the only race that have access to it and thus are more durable then any other race. The difference noticed by a cat stacking up: trait bonus + omega + gambler + crouch/sprint + additional dodge from teammates with omega is so huge that it may also be worth looking if dodging is maybe stacking to good in general.


Map: shanty town
Issue: The virus in shanty town is like the flag in capture the flag games, yet most people don't even notice whats going on there because the virus can be moved while under perfect cloak (covert trait + stealth module) and can be captured while under cloak (omega cloak+covert trait).. thus the virus carrier is never ever showing up on the minimap, the base turrets will never see anything either, making this totally unintuitive and hard to handle. Cloak debuff on the virus plz?


Doff proc: Diagnostic Engineer: Chance to increase ranged damage with Equipment Diagnostics
Issue: The equipment diagnostic doff dmg proc can be stacked, equipping 3 DE doffs while switching through multiple Equipment Technician kits rebuffing equipment diagnostic allows to continuously increase ranged damage (this includes gunfire and orbital strike damage). This allows engineers with enough kits to swap to increase dmg to get close/surpass even tac dmg and for more then one shot even.


Ability: Nanite Health Monitor
Issue: Buffs stay around on ground after switching kits.. means a science medic switching kits buffing his teammates while staying out of combat can buff 5 people with NHM compared to one on just one kit only being able to buff 2 people within its cooldown duration. In comparison when trying the same thing in space swapping a boff cancels transfer shield (or similar) even on the target. This very same issue may affect a couple more buffs.


Ability: Plasma Grenade
Issue: When a grenade is thrown while under cloak (covert trait + omega + enough range so the victim can't see) the _victim_ will not see a grenade impact circle, the one throwing it will see one however. Those "cloak-nades" are thus hard to dodge and when fully buffed present a way to one-shot people with no time to react/counter - cause they don't even know whats coming.


Ability: Ambush
Issue: Ambush is not consumed on use of grenades. While this wasn't that much of an issue yet and changing this will put tacticals on fireteam kit on serious disadvantage as they won't be able to bite through a good healers healing anymore without this spike damage it may now (while looking at tribble) become an issue. The separating of the adapted maco/KHG pulsewaves grenade launcher's cooldown from the grenade cooldown system means tacticals will be able to chain 3 fully ambush buffed hits in a row: weapon grenade-launcher + fire teams kit grenade + normal shotgun hit and thats a bit much so this needs to be looked at now.


Weapon ability: Photon grenade launcher
Issue: The KHG and adapted maco weapons secondary fire "photon grenade launcher" draws no impact circle on the floor, thus when making fully buffed shots from range in a crowded pvp provide an easy way to deal severe area effect damage (up to even one shots) without giving the victims of this tactic much chance to dodge it.
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Last edited by mikiiy; 02-09-2013 at 03:23 PM.
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