Captain
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# 41
02-08-2013, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
If Pete was raised in the South (and that's quite possible regardless of his ethnic background), it would not seem out of place on someone of any race. It's a regionalism rather than something restricted to any particular race or ethnicity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by squatsauce View Post
My own family history presents two things you need to keep in mind:

1) Many Irish immigrants ended up as sharecroppers down South. The city of Columbus, MS, for instance, has a large population of Irish descent.

2) Referring to a grown woman as "Miss" anything is not "African-American." It's a Southern thing. I myself do so quite often and I don't much if any recent African ancestry. It's also entirely possible that it's a common enough thing in any US population comprised mostly of the traditionally impoverished due to the horrible thing that is classism.
Ahh... My wife's been watching The Help a lot, and I didn't realize that it was such an overall regionally based form of address, so thanks for clarifying
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# 42
02-08-2013, 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
Thanks, I went off Obidiah Stane's line to Tony Stark in Iron Man that they had built the arc reactor "to keep the hippies quiet...", and I just figured that, despite his alcoholism, Howard would have been a pretty stoic guy who wouldn't have appreciated Woodstock or the peace movement
The nature of Stark's industry, and the fact that he chose to stay with it as long as he did, also suggests a non-pacifistic mindset.

Quote:

I think the Starfleet charter sums up my approach to Alyosha (and other non-humans) perfect: To seek out new life... I just think it's a shame that the English language doesn't have a better way of expressing 'humanity'. Decency/kindness etc come close, but still don't convey the sentiment behind the expression...
Of course IRL we have had no need to invent a different term.

Quote:
I think you made the perfect choice, as there was nothing to overpower the spiritual aspects of the encounter.
Thanks...that was as I intended.

I'll tell a story from IRL I've already told cmdrscarlet, that also influenced my choices as to how Alyosha would think and react. Once, I was driving through Tennessee and I saw what was easily one of the most inappropriate billboards I had ever seen (no TOS violations involved, though). It was an advertisement for the Shiloh Battlefield, which for those of you from overseas, was the site of a terrible battle from the American Civil War. On this billboard were pictures of a smiling family, and slogans about what a GREAT time you could have at the battlefield.

I was just...astounded, especially thinking about what it would've been like for those who lived back then and experienced those things. We often lose sight of it when reading the Gettysburg Address (also from the Civil War) because of the archaic language, but you can definitely hear it when Lincoln speaks of what it is like to stand in a place like that. "Hallowed ground."

That's why Alyosha, even as distanced by time as he is from our world and our time, felt as he did. None of the analysis, arguments, none of the history-book commentary, none of whatever superfluous debates built up over time are as important as we sometimes think they are. Not compared to the people and their stories.

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I think you're probably right about the more advanced technology as well, it would make sense that their equipment would be able to better tune into temporal phenomenon.
The phase-shifted shield from Section 31 in particular suggests the possibility to me.

Quote:
To be fair, the bullying was more down to her youthful 'webcam shenanigans' and another girl's jealousy, rather than purely being racially motivated, but I think mostly, given the upbringing Meliden had, it would have been more a kind of body dismorphia, and wanting to align her external self with her inner self, rather than wanting to appear Human to simply 'fit in with everyone else', if that makes any sense?
I can see where that would be an issue because, unlike Alyosha, she did not create her human appearance. He, on the other hand, "designed" his own human form. For Alyosha there can still sometimes be some difficulty because it's hard to tell sometimes which form is the mask and which one is the reality--the Devidian form or the human one. Somehow it's both for him.

Yet at the same time, with Meliden, it feels like a loss to contemplate someone losing a part of their unique self. :-/
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Captain
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# 43
02-09-2013, 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
The nature of Stark's industry, and the fact that he chose to stay with it as long as he did, also suggests a non-pacifistic mindset.
Absolutely so. The found footage in Iron Man II showed him to have quite a sense of humor, but I do think he would have been someone who would have had a distaste for non-Corporate America. And yet he would still have been the ideal man for the job at hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Of course IRL we have had no need to invent a different term.
Yet

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Thanks...that was as I intended.

I'll tell a story from IRL I've already told cmdrscarlet, that also influenced my choices as to how Alyosha would think and react. Once, I was driving through Tennessee and I saw what was easily one of the most inappropriate billboards I had ever seen (no TOS violations involved, though). It was an advertisement for the Shiloh Battlefield, which for those of you from overseas, was the site of a terrible battle from the American Civil War. On this billboard were pictures of a smiling family, and slogans about what a GREAT time you could have at the battlefield.

I was just...astounded, especially thinking about what it would've been like for those who lived back then and experienced those things. We often lose sight of it when reading the Gettysburg Address (also from the Civil War) because of the archaic language, but you can definitely hear it when Lincoln speaks of what it is like to stand in a place like that. "Hallowed ground."

That's why Alyosha, even as distanced by time as he is from our world and our time, felt as he did. None of the analysis, arguments, none of the history-book commentary, none of whatever superfluous debates built up over time are as important as we sometimes think they are. Not compared to the people and their stories.
Shocking to hear of a historic site like that being so diminished by being turned into some kind of attraction

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
The phase-shifted shield from Section 31 in particular suggests the possibility to me.
Yes, absolutely...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I can see where that would be an issue because, unlike Alyosha, she did not create her human appearance. He, on the other hand, "designed" his own human form. For Alyosha there can still sometimes be some difficulty because it's hard to tell sometimes which form is the mask and which one is the reality--the Devidian form or the human one. Somehow it's both for him.

Yet at the same time, with Meliden, it feels like a loss to contemplate someone losing a part of their unique self. :-/
Well, yes and no... In a previous LC, mention is made that Meliden was wearing her hair in a style which covered much of her forehead and eyes, in a deliberate attempt to conceal her Cardassian features and appear more Human. Maybe a more fitting comparison for Meliden and her thoughts on her ethnicity and appearance, would be to compare her to a transgendered person who had not yet undergone gender reassignment surgery, or someone with a severe disfigurement who needs to have corrective surgery to normalize their appearance: She was raised in Human culture, so thinks like a Human, and thinks of herself as Human, so sees her Cardassian appearance as a complete incongruity. It's not that she's a self-loather or hates herself for being Cardassian, she just doesn't think of herself as Cardassian, and felt trapped in the wrong skin. To use The Matrix for another example, and what Morpheus refered to as 'residual self-image': If Bellic Chanos and Meliden were plugged into the Matrix, he would appear as Bolian, she would appear as Human, if that makes her thoughts make more sense?

Last edited by marcusdkane; 02-09-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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# 44
02-09-2013, 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squatsauce View Post
My own family history presents two things you need to keep in mind:

1) Many Irish immigrants ended up as sharecroppers down South. The city of Columbus, MS, for instance, has a large population of Irish descent.

2) Referring to a grown woman as "Miss" anything is not "African-American." It's a Southern thing. I myself do so quite often and I don't much if any recent African ancestry. It's also entirely possible that it's a common enough thing in any US population comprised mostly of the traditionally impoverished due to the horrible thing that is classism.
You guys are putting a whole lot more thought into this than I did! I just figured the "Miss Teela" thing was a little personal quirk of speech - also, one that wasn't stereotypically Irish. Pete was getting a bit too Irish, sometimes, as I was writing him. Sure and he was, begorrah.

On the subject of currency - it might be a question of Tylha's sense of ethics (flexible though that can get, sometimes), but it might also be a practical point; Amanda Palmer, with the resources of a full starship at her disposal, can probably do things like re-using the serial numbers of destroyed bills, so as to pass her manufactured money into circulation almost tracelessly. With only a small shuttlecraft to rely on, Tylha wouldn't have the in-depth historical databases she'd need to do something like that. (As I've noted in a previous discussion, I believe in making life difficult for my protagonist.)

Actually, speaking of protagonists with difficult lives - may I say that I'm enjoying the adventures of Khas quite a bit, and am looking forward to seeing more of him?
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# 45
02-09-2013, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shevet View Post
You guys are putting a whole lot more thought into this than I did! I just figured the "Miss Teela" thing was a little personal quirk of speech - also, one that wasn't stereotypically Irish. Pete was getting a bit too Irish, sometimes, as I was writing him. Sure and he was, begorrah.
I have to admit, I didn't put that much thought into it, it was simply as mentioned above, my wife's been watching The Help a lot lately, and being from the UK and not realizing that it was a more generally Southern term of address, it seemed a little incongruous for an Irish-American, but no slight was intended

A bit like how in Wrath of Khan, even though 'Mister' is a correct naval term of address, I felt it jarred every time Kirk said 'Mister Saavik' ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shevet View Post
On the subject of currency - it might be a question of Tylha's sense of ethics (flexible though that can get, sometimes), but it might also be a practical point; Amanda Palmer, with the resources of a full starship at her disposal, can probably do things like re-using the serial numbers of destroyed bills, so as to pass her manufactured money into circulation almost tracelessly. With only a small shuttlecraft to rely on, Tylha wouldn't have the in-depth historical databases she'd need to do something like that. (As I've noted in a previous discussion, I believe in making life difficult for my protagonist.)
That's true, Tylha's resources might have been limited by the facilities of the shuttle, but replicating diamonds for stake money is admitedly not something I would have thought to do, I just wanted to reinforce that while Palmer knew she was breaking the rules, she wanted to do so in as legitimate way as possible, rather than Kirk's methods of "I'm Jim Kirk and I'm awesome so I'll do it anyway..." or going 'Captain Ransom'

Quote:
Originally Posted by shevet View Post
Actually, speaking of protagonists with difficult lives - may I say that I'm enjoying the adventures of Khas quite a bit, and am looking forward to seeing more of him?
Likewise
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# 46
02-09-2013, 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
A bit like how in Wrath of Khan, even though 'Mister' is a correct naval term of address, I felt it jarred every time Kirk said 'Mister Saavik' ...
zomg so true! Especially because its Kirstie Ally!

/swoon
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene
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# 47
02-09-2013, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrscarlet View Post
zomg so true! Especially because its Kirstie Ally!

/swoon
It just seemed so obviously and unnecessarily done, it really bugged me >_< (Mister Saavik, not Miss Teela )
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# 48
02-09-2013, 02:16 PM
Finally. Man, this was not easy and my mentioning New York City seems very circumstantial.

I may do more with it but I'm ok with it as it is ...

EDIT - actors list

Kathryn - Rachel Nichols
Section 31 agent - Mark Harmon
Kyle Retarius - Matthew Fox
Margaret Retarius - Emma Roberts
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene

Last edited by cmdrscarlet; 02-09-2013 at 06:48 PM. Reason: Actors list
Captain
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# 49
02-09-2013, 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
Shocking to hear of a historic site like that being so diminished by being turned into some kind of attraction
Yeah...and while I doubt that happened, by the 24th century, it does show the extremes to which we can go in forgetting the reality of historical events.

Quote:
Well, yes and no... In a previous LC, mention is made that Meliden was wearing her hair in a style which covered much of her forehead and eyes, in a deliberate attempt to conceal her Cardassian features and appear more Human. Maybe a more fitting comparison for Meliden and her thoughts on her ethnicity and appearance, would be to compare her to a transgendered person who had not yet undergone gender reassignment surgery, or someone with a severe disfigurement who needs to have corrective surgery to normalize their appearance: She was raised in Human culture, so thinks like a Human, and thinks of herself as Human, so sees her Cardassian appearance as a complete incongruity. It's not that she's a self-loather or hates herself for being Cardassian, she just doesn't think of herself as Cardassian, and felt trapped in the wrong skin. To use The Matrix for another example, and what Morpheus refered to as 'residual self-image': If Bellic Chanos and Meliden were plugged into the Matrix, he would appear as Bolian, she would appear as Human, if that makes her thoughts make more sense?
While I kind of see what you mean, I think that in part it's DS9's episode "Cardassians" that left a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to that sort of thing. Rugal Pa'Dar definitely came off as having been brainwashed--either by his adoptive parents or by the society around him, depending on who you believe was responsible for the abuses against him--into a very self-destructive mindset regarding his identity.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM me for more. :-)


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Captain
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# 50
02-09-2013, 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrscarlet View Post
Finally. Man, this was not easy and my mentioning New York City seems very circumstantial.

I may do more with it but I'm ok with it as it is ...
Punchy, and with shades of Blade Runner... I like it
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