Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 21
02-09-2013, 03:44 PM
Prior to the reward nerf Kerrat received, AFK dilithium farmers would hang out there. They could just sit there AFK while not being a hindrance to the other players. I can't say I particularly agreed with it but at least they weren't AFKing in matches and STFs etc. Since the reward nerf though, dilithium farmers have moved into the queues, particularly the PvP queues.

I'm sick and tired of these AFKers ruining the fun for everyone else, doing nothing yet STILL getting a reward.

Now we have Fleet/Rom/Omega mark AFKers.

It's seriously about time we had a "vote to kick" button.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,106
# 22
02-09-2013, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanover2 View Post
A "vote to kick" option is undeniably needed. Ignore the cries about the potential for abuse. A lot of those complaints are coming from the leechers themselves. Not many people are going to vote out a productive pick-up game team member.
This can eaily be abused, I was in a KASE with 4 people from the same fleet who all were doing way less dps then me, but were trying to tell me what to do, like guard probes. This was after I tanked the tac cube the whole time with no cross heals from them with my tac escort with no threat control, so obviously I had most DPS.

STF is DPS race, so DPS person runs the show, but these people were thinking just because most of the group was their fleet their fleet was running it. Anyway I just ignored them and the probes and someone from their fleet was forced to guard them while I soloed both cubes on right side and took my gate sdown before the other 3 of them on left side did.

If there was a vote kick system I could have been kicked simply for knowing how better to play my ship effectivley and not listening to noobs.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 23
02-09-2013, 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
...and not listening to noobs.
You weren't not listening to noobs, you were not listening to perfectly competent players who were perhaps slightly less effective than you, although you have no solid evidence for that assertion and they had no evidence at all. Heck, as far as I can tell they could all have been doing 25% more DPS than you but each had one of the [-Th] consoles. The most important thing in an STF is good teamwork and strategy. From what I can tell their strategy was a perfectly typical and sound one. If you're not willing to work as a team you are making the mission harder for everyone, whether you have 2k DPS or 20k. By deliberately ignoring the mission-critical duty you had been asked to perform without even informing the other players you were effectively a griefer, and so kicking you at that point would not have been an abuse at all. That's just the way working together works.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,894
# 24
02-09-2013, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
You weren't not listening to noobs, you were not listening to perfectly competent players who were perhaps slightly less effective than you, although you have no solid evidence for that assertion and they had no evidence at all. Heck, as far as I can tell they could all have been doing 25% more DPS than you but each had one of the [-Th] consoles. The most important thing in an STF is good teamwork and strategy. From what I can tell their strategy was a perfectly typical and sound one. If you're not willing to work as a team you are making the mission harder for everyone, whether you have 2k DPS or 20k. By deliberately ignoring the mission-critical duty you had been asked to perform without even informing the other players you were effectively a griefer, and so kicking you at that point would not have been an abuse at all. That's just the way working together works.
And THIS is precisely why a vote to kick tool is a very bad idea. It will become "Do as we so or we will kick you". No player should have to take orders from another player in a match. They should be able to play the match any way they want. And what would be to stop a team like that from kicking the player right before Donatara's ship gets blown up just to spite the player. Do you really think Cryptic is going to investigate every last claim of abuse on a vote to kick tool? They won't, they have a lot of better things to do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,894
# 25
02-09-2013, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkaos View Post
That would be part of the useful activity. Kang probably has more useful activity since there is healing Kang and damaging npcs involved. Although, there might be some teams where the Kang and the Vortex are not a concern. Probably have a if the Kang and Vortex aren't affected by npcs, then players guarding them are awarded as regular players. If they are affected by npcs and no activity is done by the guards, then consolation prize. Have to punish guards for dereliction of duty. Besides, those two STFs have a fail condition so afkers probably go after ISE and other events where you can't fail it.
So, what about teams using three cube attackers, one floater, and one emergency guard/kang healer. The match goes so well that the emergency guard doesn't have to do anything until the end Neg'Vars show up. If there were a timed kick then he would have been booted long before that time. You wouldn't be able to get anyone to do guard duty due to a risk of not getting the "best"rewards. I have done hundreds upon thousands of STFs. Out of that I have only had two cases where someone was just sitting there pressing need constantly (KASE and ISE). The KASE was rather fun, the team and I decided to lure Donatara over to the spawn and we let her camp him a few times. Amazingly enough the third time around he full impulsed way out into the far corner of the map .

It's not as all so common as you are all claiming. The easiest way to solve this? Have your whole team send complaints about him to his fleet leader via the ingame mail. Then have everyone leave the match. Cryptic doesn't need to implement a technical feature to deal with the very small number of AFKers, we already have methods to deal with them on our own.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 26
02-10-2013, 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
And THIS is precisely why a vote to kick tool is a very bad idea. It will become "Do as we so or we will kick you". No player should have to take orders from another player in a match. They should be able to play the match any way they want. And what would be to stop a team like that from kicking the player right before Donatara's ship gets blown up just to spite the player. Do you really think Cryptic is going to investigate every last claim of abuse on a vote to kick tool? They won't, they have a lot of better things to do.
You understand that this whole thing came out of you talking about a time when YOU ALMOST LOST THE MISSION FOR YOUR ENTIRE TEAM PURELY BECAUSE YOU WERE BEING AN ELITIST JERK, right? STFs are team missions that require teamwork to complete. If you aren't prepared to work as a team, including using the same strategy as the rest of the group, you shouldn't be playing them. Yes, that means that often someone is going to have to give orders during the course of the match, if for no other reason than to make sure everyone is on the same page, even if it would have worked another way too. That is the nature of our species, and you're going to have to learn to cope with it.

Your other objection is that there's a chance that 4 people are going to decide together to be complete jerks and kick someone purely for the fun of making them miserable. I simply don't buy that happening in anything close to a significant number of cases, and if it were it would be easily fixed by not allowing kicks after a certain point in the match (say a gate dead in KASE, both transformers dead in ISE, two cubes dead in CSE).

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
The easiest way to solve this? Have your whole team send complaints about him to his fleet leader via the ingame mail. Then have everyone leave the match. Cryptic doesn't need to implement a technical feature to deal with the very small number of AFKers, we already have methods to deal with them on our own.
You're making 4 assumptions that will not be accurate for all cases.
1: you assume this player is in a fleet, not everyone is.
2: you assume that your team will know the leader of that fleet, which is highly unlikely given the number of fleets in STO.
3: you assume that the fleet leader will want to punish a person who did this, which need not be the case. This is all the more true since they will have no way to confirm your claim, and so it becomes the word of 4 strangers against the word of 1 member, and the potential for abuse here is at least as great.
4: you assume that the fleet leader will be able to punish a person who did this, which is totally inaccurate. The worst thing a fleet leader could possibly do to someone is kick them from the fleet, which is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of the game, especially since they can likely get an invite to another fleet soon after.

Of course, all that is on top of the fact that doing this means you don't get rewards for the mission and instead get a leaver penalty forbidding you from doing any more for an hour. For a player who only gets a few hours online in a day (and the devs think 3 is standard) that is a major hardship.

EDIT: My apologies, I did not realize you were not the person my first response was directed to. As a result, my tone was harsher than it should have been. However, my points stand.

Last edited by jadensecura; 02-10-2013 at 04:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,106
# 27
02-10-2013, 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
You weren't not listening to noobs, you were not listening to perfectly competent players who were perhaps slightly less effective than you,
I reference the part that I was forced to tank tac cube with no cross heals as Tac in Defiant, something most can't do very easily. I did it, but still common courtesy for others to cross heal if any of their tankier ships arent holding aggro.

Not showing teamwork then and asking for it after is not very smart.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 28
02-10-2013, 02:11 AM
Afkers were poluting the pvp queues since ever but nothing happened, because it was just "pvp". I hope that afkers will now polute the pve queues now even more, so cryptic finally creates a solution.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 29
02-10-2013, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
I reference the part that I was forced to tank tac cube with no cross heals as Tac in Defiant, something most can't do very easily. I did it, but still common courtesy for others to cross heal if any of their tankier ships arent holding aggro.

Not showing teamwork then and asking for it after is not very smart.
Have you ever tried using mid level heals on a teamate in an STF? I do it all the time, and they usually die within 10 seconds anyway, and then I'm the next target. That's with a max Aux 99 skill TSS2 and a max Aux 84 skill HE1. So you need either a dedicated sci healboat or a cruiser with Extend Shields to do anything significant. The former you definitely aren't going to see much, although the latter you might, most cruisers should be carrying an Extend Shields, although if you have to pick just one EWP is probably the better PvE support power.

So, long story short, not cross healing still doesn't indicate much of anything.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 92
# 30
02-10-2013, 06:03 PM
Hmm...

Well, it's no biggy if there's an afker in my group as i always run with at least 1 fleetie. I can see the point though, it can get frustrating.

Problem is, A Vote-kick system will be abused, no doubt about it. I'd rather just two-person KAGE with optional and three AFKers, we've done it without the afkers, show our prowess and brag about it too them.

When they say connection issues, or something happened outside of the game, i'll have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Because come on, we don't have evidence otherwise. That being said, if i see the same person doing it repeatedly, i might get frustrated.

Thing is, every STF is designed to be completed with optional the bare minimum of players, 3 for IGE, 2 for KAGE, not sure about CGE, i'd say 2-3 though, ISE, 1 person perhaps, KASE, two definitely, CSE, i've seen two people doing it, asked for a spectator.

So it's not the end of the world if you get some AFKers, i know it feels like "Why should i be doing the work for them?", but then think of it this way "Wow, i completed this STF with (1,2,3) members down, i do have some skill!"
I'm the guy that uses unconventional builds, and don't fall to the normal. I also don't believe in "No-BS" crap, it's in the game, it's ready to be used. Think Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge.
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