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Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 289
# 91
02-09-2013, 03:33 PM
I believe the XII console crafting method should be completly reworked, My idea would be: I go to my Fabrication lab on my Starbase or Ship and all 42 consoles are listed on a Menu, I choose what console i want, and like the reputation system is tells me what i need to craft it. This should include certian Doffs with specific traits to get a higher chance at crit success, a set amount of data samples and EC or Dil, a console schematic, and say if you are shooting for a XII purple Antiproton Mag regulator you would need 2 or 3 lower level consoles of the same type. So if I include 3 white antiproton consoles I get a %40 chance at purple, 3 Green %50, 3 Blue %70 chance at purple, and the Doff crit success determines if it is a X, XI or XII. You could do this with your bound consoles so when you level up you dont have to sell or scrap your old stuff you could recycle it toward new higher level or quailty items. You could also do this with Shields, Eng, Weps. It would put to use all the junk drops that we just sell to vendors for EC and it would put to use all the data samples we never use after we hit VA, The effect on the economy would be that lower tier and quality items would increase in price on exchange due to people needing them for crafting just like the common doffs and Romulan ale and contrband did. This system would get players farming data samples and drops to use to craft with and it would alow players as they are leveling up to use their lower tier equipment to get the next tier of equipment they need, Im sure all remember how bad it sucked when you hit commander and got a new ship and went to buy new gear for it and your officers and then 2 or 3 days later you hit capt or RA and it all just got sold to a vendor for scrap. Lets put these items that are already in game use and scrap this alien artifact ramdom method for something better.

Last edited by admgreer; 02-09-2013 at 03:36 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 465
# 92
02-09-2013, 04:39 PM
5 - Somewhere in the game code lies an issue that is skewing the observed results from the expected results (the drop rate in the loot table) -

Right now, I am thinking along these lines and trying to come up with specific-sub hypotheses we can test from this.

We can call the first two 5a, and 5b.

5a - There is an additional role in that the loot table is not what we think it is - This means the following - Roll For Quality ---> Roll for Category (Science, Engineering, Tactical) ---> Roll for subcategory (i.e. Tactical Energy) ----> Roll on table for a Tactical Energy Console. I used STOWiki's nice sub-category layout (8 tables per quality for 24 tables). So we have:

Science - Skill (9) and Non-skill (3) based console sub categories
Tactical - Generic (4), Energy Weapons (6), and Kinetic Weapons (6) subcategories
Engineering ? Ship Power Level (4), Defense (7), and General subcategories (4)

The OP's results fit this logic much better assuming 1) there are sub-categories, 2) I have placed the consoles in the correct sub-category, and 3) consoles drop uniformly within the subcategories.

Using his updated data:
Engineering
Ship Power - Chi-Square = 18.96, df = 3, p = 0.000278
Defense - Chi-Square = 7.57, df = 7, p = 0.271
General - Chi-Square = 6.00, df = 3, p = 0.112

Tactical
Generic - Chi-Square = 4.92, df = 3, p = 0.178
Energy Weapons - Chi-Square = 7.33, df = 5, p = 0.197
Kinetic Weapons - Chi-Square = 7.50, df = 5, p = 0.186

Science
Skill - Chi-Square = 22.4, df = 8, p = 0.004119
No Skill - Chi-Square = 3.05, df = 2, p = 0.218

Only two significantly differ. It is very odd the OP has not received and Booster Modulators and that is what is driving that difference, also OP you have Diburnium Hull Plating listed twice. I assumed one of those was Tetraburnium Hull Armor. The "Skill" based science consoles also significantly differ but that may be because the sub-category breakdown is not correct and there may be three science sub-categories rather than two.

But 5a is defiantly on the table as a specific case of 5.

5b - There is a profession factor included - where a Science character has a greater chance of getting a science console, Engineering and engineering, tactical a tactical. This is a bit tougher for us to test because we would need to keep track of character professions for each drop as well. Right now for this one all we can do is make qualitative assessments.

Last edited by commodoreshrvk; 02-09-2013 at 04:42 PM.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,763
# 93
02-09-2013, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodoreshrvk View Post
5a - There is an additional role in that the loot table is not what we think it is -
Nope.

The odds on the Assignment outcome are rolled, based on your odds of success. You either get Green, Blue or Purple.

There are only 3 tables, and you only ever roll on 1 per Assignment completion. Whichever outcome you receive, you then roll on a great big table that has all 42 Mk XII console variants of the appropriate color for your outcome.

There is no weighting on these 3 tables. Every entry has an equal weight of 1.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 465
# 94
02-09-2013, 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Nope.

The odds on the Assignment outcome are rolled, based on your odds of success. You either get Green, Blue or Purple.

There are only 3 tables, and you only ever roll on 1 per Assignment completion. Whichever outcome you receive, you then roll on a great big table that has all 42 Mk XII console variants of the appropriate color for your outcome.

There is no weighting on these 3 tables. Every entry has an equal weight of 1.
Thanks, I can stop that line of thought. So we are back to every console, regardless of quality, should drop with a 2.44% chance. With the OP's updated data (352 consoles) the two groups at the "tails" are driving the difference. Those would be consoles where he has received ~2 or less and ones where he has received ~14 or more. In 352 consoles we expect him to get ~7 or 8 of each type.

The results are not shifting much:

Original Data - Chi-square = 263.39, with 40 df, probability = 1.14x10^-34
Current Data - Chi-square = 252.68, with 40 df, probability = 1.11x10^-32

Again, if this was a pure sample size issue we should have seen more of a swing toward uniformity.

I am at a loss at this point and will just update analyses and data as it comes in from various sources.

Last edited by commodoreshrvk; 02-09-2013 at 05:37 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 146
# 95
02-09-2013, 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The only possible explanation I can offer at this point, is that it's just a matter of sample size. There are 42 different Mk XII consoles you can receive from this assignment (16 Eng, 10 Sci, 16 Tac) of each quality (Green, Blue, Purple) resulting in the total number of potential outcomes being 42*3=126. When you run a sample size of 300, with almost half that many possible outcomes, your odds are invariably going to be too small to create an big enough picture of the entirety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Nope.

The odds on the Assignment outcome are rolled, based on your odds of success. You either get Green, Blue or Purple.

There are only 3 tables, and you only ever roll on 1 per Assignment completion. Whichever outcome you receive, you then roll on a great big table that has all 42 Mk XII console variants of the appropriate color for your outcome.

There is no weighting on these 3 tables. Every entry has an equal weight of 1.
So just to be clear the data in question is the type of console (MKXII) that is received. The quality of the console (Green/Blue/Purple) is not being questioned. I think you are in error when you point the the "possible outcomes" (as relevant to the results presented) as 126. The provided data shows only the outcome of the "great big table" of 42 MK XII consoles and that is what is being questioned.

Looking at the data (assuming it is true and correct), I have to support the idea that something is wrong in the code. It isn't just the lack of a single console, (as someone pointed out the lack of any one specific console is only 1 in a bit over 1000 or so) but the poor showing of all the popular consoles across the board.

Last edited by picardtheiii; 02-09-2013 at 07:06 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 96
02-09-2013, 07:54 PM
I would typically ascribe the OP to the prosecutor's fallacy and chalk it up to reading tea leaves in an insufficient sample size, but (assuming the numbers aren't fudged) those results really are slightly fishy. I mean of all the consoles to come dead last, it's relays, accelerators and field gens?

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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,714
# 97
02-09-2013, 08:07 PM
Yeah. A lot of players have noticed with the NADORC chain that the "more useful and popular" consoles are a rarity in occurrence. I have personally noticed that the majority of the time, any purples I get are usually the less useful ones. As science goes, I never get field gens/emitter arrays, as Engineering goes, I hardly ever get anything other than diburnium, but I did get ONE monotanium (which currently resides on my FAC). I have never seen a hide nor hair of Neutronium or Ablative/Tetraburnium. As Tactical Consoles go, I have gotten one phaser relay, one AP mag regulator, and about a dozen or so Variable Geometry and another dozen or so DEDM/CPC consoles.

Sufficed to say, the less used/less popular consoles are what I get the majority of the time when I do this chain. It's annoying, but it seems to be the case globally.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 98
02-09-2013, 08:12 PM
One solution might be to point out that there simply aren't that many desirable consoles: some of the armors, the turn consoles, the energy weapon types, the field gens (and to a lesser extent emitters/SIF gens) and that's really about it. However, this wouldn't explain seeing the consoles themselves so rarely.

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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,714
# 99
02-09-2013, 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
One solution might be to point out that there simply aren't that many desirable consoles: some of the armors, the turn consoles, the energy weapon types, the field gens (and to a lesser extent emitters/SIF gens) and that's really about it. However, this wouldn't explain seeing the consoles themselves so rarely.
That is very true. From what I know, the desirable consoles are as follows:

Science

(very desirable)
Field Generators
Emitter Array

Power Insulator
Inertial Dampeners

(Semi-desirable)
Flow Capacitors
Particle Generators
Graviton Generators

(Undesirable)
Everything else

Engineering

(very desirable)
Neutronium Alloy
Monotanium Alloy

Tetraburnium Hull Armor
Ablative Hull Armor
RCS Accelerator

(semi-desirable)
All Remaining Hull Armor Consoles
EPS Flow Regulators

(undesirable)
Everything else

Tactical

(very desirable)
Single Energy Type Booster Consoles (currently Phaser, Disruptor, and Polaron are most wanted it seems, but for the most part all of them are desirable)
TCD Subspace Infuser

(semi-desirable)
Remaining Single Projectile Type Booster Consoles
Directed Energy Distribution Manifold
Cannon Prefire Chamber
Variable Geometry Detonators
Warhead Yield Chamber

(undesirable)
Ironically none really.

Most desired Consoles are highlighted in green.

Now out of the 42 possible consoles, that's only a total of 10 that are the most wanted. So there are 126 possibilities (ignoring the white quality since I am sure that most people can do better than white), and of those 126, only 10 are truly most wanted. That's 7.9% of the total yield possibilities list.

So it's odd that these 10 most wanted hardly ever make appearances.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,366
# 100
02-09-2013, 10:52 PM
You can eliminate all Sci consoles other than Field Gens from that list thanks to embassy.

Also EPS I can't really think of why it would be desirable but if you say so.
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