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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 21
02-09-2013, 04:44 PM
Engineers were fine early on. MW was castable on friends and gave a 90% Hull heal with consoles and I believe a hull resistance buff as well.

RSF had a 75% shield resist until shield resists were cut in half across the board.

The old skill system forced you to spec more carefully. Now you can have it all, only they benefit Tacs and Sci Caps more.

Different Consoles made a difference and you specc'd, depending on what ship you flew. Now with Doffs and Passive Heals/Regen, you can toss a couple Neutroniums and tank like a pro, no matter what ship you're in.

Last edited by doomicile; 02-09-2013 at 04:47 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 272
# 22
02-09-2013, 05:13 PM
I think we need to distinguish between healing numbers and healing effectiveness. Sci and eng can sport similar healing numbers, but the sci has to use more heals on itself than the eng. If you spend your time under fire and self-healing, of course you'll rack up the numbers. That constant healing on yourself means you're not healing teammates, so while you may be doing more raw healing, your healing effectiveness on teammates is greatly reduced.

Just as an example, let's say you have an eng and a sci each running tac team and extend. Both powers don't do much raw healing, but are more based on preventing damage. Sci is naturally squishier so the tac team would more often be used on itself rather than teammates, and the extend cooldown would often need to be saved to keep RSP available.

TL;DR version: Sci can get higher healing numbers from its need to self-heal, but eng can tank better by preventing damage on itself and is better able to save heal cooldowns for teammates.
K'eg/T'lol/Dude/Yak
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 23
02-09-2013, 06:50 PM
No you do not need an Engineer in High Level PvP.

Reason being is quite simply, the Engineer has at least 3 selfish abilities that only serves purpose to himself. Obviously running in a team also means you want to contribute a little bit more then just boosting your beams a bit with Nadion/EPS and keeping your own butt alive with RSF/Miracle.

If Tac's/Sci's can do without, so can an engineer. Thus useless.

IMO Engineers were always supposed to be a tank, because other then that a tac or a sci can heal just as much externally as engineers. Again you dont need to be an engineer to stay alive, thats what the team is for. And if you are solo'ing i don't think you would even be asking this question in the forums.

Unfortunately Engineers have literally nothing that would make people actually want to kill you. No awesome damage, just zombie'ing around. You might think being an engineer with tons of heals will attract the attention towards you, but really versus a good premade 1 full heal engineer cruiser can't keep your whole team alive if no-one else has any heals. and again the circle goes round and round and instead of firing at the engineer cruiser the opposing team can target another sub healer instead and still win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctos1717 View Post
Even the best of the best can't heal as much as best science captains,?
I never seen a Sci do more healing then a Engi, nor the other way around. Unless you count in the self heals.


For each Subnuke you can diminish ones damage, ultimately taking away the need to heal extra. Basic rule but Sci > Engi

Or let me state it differently, I'd rather want to be a Sci, nuking off someones ability to even kill me (Nuke off APA/GDF) instead of being an Engi, use RSF and try to tank all that damage off me :p

Choice is easily made.

You need to have something REALLY special if playing an Engi to increase your threat generation otherwise its basically a lost cause and its a 5 versus 4.5 or even worse 5 versus 4.1 (.1 still for the beams you fire which might hurt hem a tiny bit )

MT-

Last edited by darkfader1988; 02-09-2013 at 07:00 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 145
# 24
02-09-2013, 08:43 PM
Relativity in sto pvp

Today
Tact 60%
Sci 30%
Eng 10%

Before F2p
Sci 50%
Tact 30%
Eng 20%

Beta
100% sci

When it was cruisers online SNB was much more dominant. Now that its escorts online Tact are number one.

Eng has always been the step child. Good for zombie healers and nitch builds.


A passive higher power lvl cap for Eng would be nice, +10 passive cap to all power level, like 135 power instead of 125.

That would bring players over to eng it open up more for sciVessal builds and sustained dps.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 272
# 25
02-09-2013, 09:22 PM
6 months after launch until 6 months before F2P: 50% eng, 30% sci, 20% tac
K'eg/T'lol/Dude/Yak
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 26
02-09-2013, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomicile View Post
Engineers were fine early on. MW was castable on friends and gave a 90% Hull heal with consoles and I believe a hull resistance buff as well.

RSF had a 75% shield resist until shield resists were cut in half across the board.

The old skill system forced you to spec more carefully. Now you can have it all, only they benefit Tacs and Sci Caps more.

Different Consoles made a difference and you specc'd, depending on what ship you flew. Now with Doffs and Passive Heals/Regen, you can toss a couple Neutroniums and tank like a pro, no matter what ship you're in.
It might help if the (x) Fleet skills were folded back into different respective career powers. Eng Fleet becomes part of MW, Sci Fleet is part of Scattering Field (which while very useful honestly doesn't make much sense as a Sci power) and Tac Fleet could maybe be split between AP:A and GDF.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 232
# 27
02-10-2013, 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnumoftheblack View Post
I don't know guys, I never saw Picard ask Geordi LaForge for a heal. And I could have sworn that I never saw Spock move Scotty aside and fix the warp core.
The fact that people think that Engineers are healers is a concept that should be rethought.

Engineers fabricate and fix. Sciences research and control. Depending on an Engineer to heal you is about as reliable as Dr. McCoy laying a code worthy brick path.

Just something to think about.
this point is just moot and silly as you are comparing a games skills to a television show.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,451
# 28
02-10-2013, 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsupreme79 View Post
this point is just moot and silly as you are comparing a games skills to a television show.
Star Trek.
Star Trek: Online.

Silly, eh?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 37
# 29
02-10-2013, 09:59 AM
All in all, at the moment, the game took a dump on engineers to mildly put it.

Q: What are you in STO?
A: I'm an engineer

Q: I'm so sorry, you poor thing... i didn't know you're one of the orphans
A: I'll survive, there are still so many things I can do

Q: Like what?
A: I can open lock boxes, send DOFFS on missions, look for bargains on exchange while my fleet mates fight in PvP, I can farm dilithium all day long and so many other cool things

Q: Aha, I see now, very nice, good lad..........
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,260
# 30
02-10-2013, 11:54 AM
Well if we are going to really look at the changes made to the game in the last year or so and the classes... I guess it is pretty obvious to see none of the Cryptic Staff plays any engi. Lets consider the following issues.

1) Power... Frankly Everyone has WAY to much... EPS is sucks. Why is that ? Its simple its redundant. Who needs +33 power to every system when your power already reads 125 125 80 80....

2) Power Transfer Rate... Lets add that into the skill tree, this was a horrible move on Cryptic part Electro Plasma game destroyer... Yes why not everyone is sick to death of running and EPS Unit... again who needs EPS transfer, when everyone has the = of 2 EPS units worth of transfer for a small handful of skill points.

3) Weapon power usage... this one changes a good while ago... but really again what good is EPS transfer ? Weapon power automagikly returning after a cycle has cause a ton of weapon balance problems... and again lessened what used to be a stable Engi Offensive skill... and as a support skill throwing one on a cannon escort under the old system was just evil fun. Now its pointless... chances are an escort you throw a EPS likely won't even notice they got it.

4) Kinetic Cutting Beam... WTF? are you kidding... Free Nadion Inversion for everyone... and infact more of it for ships that can load cannons and rapid fires... have fun guys on demand face roll in a can. Nadion why would anyone need that ?

5) Doffs that replace Nadion... I know its only 8s... still Activate DEM get 8s of free nadion... don't even have to be a silly engi.

6) So many +power items I won't even try to count them...

I am sure I am forgetting some major things... I won't talk about FAW as I know most would... IMO it was completely wacked before... and if its not using ACC properly now it should be fixed... still I would rather see FAW busted then working the way it has for half of the 20 or so versions we have seen.

IF I was the dev in charge of balance this is what I would do....

I wouldn't change one item...
I wouldn't change one doff...

What I would do...

1) Raise the base power setting of every ship system to 125... making 125 the new 100... and allowing power to raise to 150. Where as weapons at 125 do the same amount of dmg they do now at 100... and 150 = 125. I hope that makes sense... I would of course not raise the max power you could set in the ship...
So you would still set say 100 25 50 25... but your systems would all take a good 20-30% hit.
This would INSTANTLY restore the usefulness of EPS transfer.

2) I would half the power transfer rate afforded by Electro Plasma Systems. Again forcing people that swap power to slot an EPS (reducing some of the games tank)... and once again making EPS transfer a super powerful buff.

3) I would return weapon drain. Nadion is basicly pointless... the only ships that should be able to feed an 8 beam broad side... or a 8 cannon bit of pew pew should be an engi... An escort wanting to run full cannons should be forced to slot 1-2 EPS units again... once again tank removed from the game... DPS or TANK not both all the time.

Anyway those are the 3 things I would change to restore Engi to its rightful place in the trinity. With all the power creep and all the brain dead additions that basicly replace the need for engi buffs... I think that would be about the only way to easily fix the class. (with out redoing multiple skills and items)
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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