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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,735
# 21
02-12-2013, 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradstudent1 View Post

I will be there as the designated driver, to take Havam back to New Romulus once he has finishes crashing his ship into the cracked planetoid over and over again. Sorry Havam, you can't use ramming speed on planets
juszzt lemmeee take the right one, its been home to vulcans i can smell it.


but yeah an online quiz would make checking for handles easy.
I m with naz coaches in the back, and go easy on the testing. I don't want people to get test anxieties or me to control for cheaters. Its a game, i do the other stuff in RL.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 22
02-12-2013, 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
juszzt lemmeee take the right one, its been home to vulcans i can smell it.


but yeah an online quiz would make checking for handles easy.
I m with naz coaches in the back, and go easy on the testing. I don't want people to get test anxieties or me to control for cheaters. Its a game, i do the other stuff in RL.
Agreed. This needs to be a low anxiety situation.

@gradstudent1
PvP Boot Camp Project Leader Emeritus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 23
02-12-2013, 04:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
To say the truth, i don't want to turn people away from PvP, so the tests if necessary at all have to be fun and not feel like a test at all.

The idea of questions is a bit pointless as you might be able to give all the right answers but practicly not do a bean.

It should be done in such a manner that the students don't feel the mental burden of being put under test conditions. I know I wouldn't want to be tested on something I play for enjoyment.

Before ideas are put forward, please keep in mind what the spirit of boot camp is about. Growing interest in PvP with the rest of the STO community.

I personally wouldn't even have "tests". Why can't we leave it at those who attended all x classes get the reward?
These are good points, Naz. I wonder if we might re-frame the testing element as an evaluation with personal feedback from coaches. What I mean is that our students could be put into a combat scenario, which the coach would then observe (perhaps even a 1 v 1). The coach would then provide the student with "next steps" to help him/her achieve her next level of ability in PvP. What do you think about this? I am just thinking out loud a bit, but I share your concerns for sure, Naz, and like how you are thinking about these things.

We have a coahces meeting this Saturday, when I would like to discuss this further.

@gradstudent1
PvP Boot Camp Project Leader Emeritus
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,735
# 24
02-12-2013, 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradstudent1 View Post
These are good points, Naz. I wonder if we might re-frame the testing element as an evaluation with personal feedback from coaches. What I mean is that our students could be put into a combat scenario, which the coach would then observe (perhaps even a 1 v 1). The coach would then provide the student with "next steps" to help him/her achieve her next level of ability in PvP. What do you think about this? I am just thinking out loud a bit, but I share your concerns for sure, Naz, and like how you are thinking about these things.

We have a coahces meeting this Saturday, when I would like to discuss this further.
I like the idea of scrapping the test element. 1v1 would go against the whole message that PvP is a team sport that we have been singing for the last couple of session.

minimum of 3v3 with feedback from observer coaches and co-coaches. We'll go into the basics of teamplay in session 3. Personally, i view session 4 as an opportunity to not do much talking, have some matches, where the basics (redistribute etc) have been covered, and the class as a whole can evaluate each others performances.

Ideally, everybody had enough time to practice and implement our feedback. This is the time to have some fun, and learn something on the side.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
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# 25
02-12-2013, 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
I like the idea of scrapping the test element. 1v1 would go against the whole message that PvP is a team sport that we have been singing for the last couple of session.

minimum of 3v3 with feedback from observer coaches and co-coaches. We'll go into the basics of teamplay in session 3. Personally, i view session 4 as an opportunity to not do much talking, have some matches, where the basics (redistribute etc) have been covered, and the class as a whole can evaluate each others performances.

Ideally, everybody had enough time to practice and implement our feedback. This is the time to have some fun, and learn something on the side.
You're right, Havam. I think 3 v 3 would be better, in part because I don't want the coaches to have too many students to watch, which would no doubt be the case in a 5 v 5. In any case, we will discuss this a bit more on Saturday when we have the coaches meeting. I hope the two of you are able to make it, so that you can share your insights.

@gradstudent1
PvP Boot Camp Project Leader Emeritus
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# 26
02-12-2013, 06:49 AM
How about a quiz as well as a match? The match cud be a 3v3. Each team will be made of a tac, an engi and a sci. That way, all concerned careers would be able to put in test what they learned in bootcamps. And each match could include coach observers on both sides who would be taking note of what the students did right and what they did not. Does this sound like a proper procedure for evaluation?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,729
# 27
02-12-2013, 07:54 AM
Create a match of any size, with only the students on one side being tested.. Doesn't need to be students only, that would be punitive. It just needs to be understood by the test administrators that only the students on that side are being tested.

On the opposite side, in amongst the rest of the crew, you put Mini.

Anyone he pops, fails. Anyone he can't pop, passes.

Why? Because if you're heads up enough to see that coming AND take steps to protect yourself I'd say you're all good.

Anyone can answer a test question. Not everyone can put the knowledge to use in the brief window of time an alpha strike gives you.

Cheers and happy flying!

And yes I'm totally serious.

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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 238
# 28
02-12-2013, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post


minimum of 3v3 with feedback from observer coaches and co-coaches. We'll go into the basics of teamplay in session 3. Personally, i view session 4 as an opportunity to not do much talking, have some matches, where the basics (redistribute etc) have been covered, and the class as a whole can evaluate each others performances.
I like this idea a coach and assistant coach would take 4 students at a time and do 3v3 to 5pts. Each coach could take 2 students per team, it should allow for a slow paced match. Different scenarios could be tested, like how to clear a sub-nuke or a VM or how to successfully Alpha strike a target. The coaches could then grade their students to pass the test, if any of the students have problems they could be setup for a tutor session for completion.

~The Eleventh Order~
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,393
# 29
02-12-2013, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradstudent1 View Post
These are good points, Naz. I wonder if we might re-frame the testing element as an evaluation with personal feedback from coaches. What I mean is that our students could be put into a combat scenario, which the coach would then observe (perhaps even a 1 v 1). The coach would then provide the student with "next steps" to help him/her achieve her next level of ability in PvP. What do you think about this? I am just thinking out loud a bit, but I share your concerns for sure, Naz, and like how you are thinking about these things.

We have a coahces meeting this Saturday, when I would like to discuss this further.
This definitely sounds like a good basis to work from - They will get more out of it in the long run.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 30
02-12-2013, 11:03 AM
I'm taking part in the ground portion, and not space but I wanted to add some ideas to the thread anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
To say the truth, i don't want to turn people away from PvP, so the tests if necessary at all have to be fun and not feel like a test at all.

The idea of questions is a bit pointless as you might be able to give all the right answers but practicly not do a bean.

It should be done in such a manner that the students don't feel the mental burden of being put under test conditions. I know I wouldn't want to be tested on something I play for enjoyment.

Before ideas are put forward, please keep in mind what the spirit of boot camp is about. Growing interest in PvP with the rest of the STO community.

I personally wouldn't even have "tests". Why can't we leave it at those who attended all x classes get the reward?

I think naz makes some good points here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gradstudent1 View Post
I wonder if we might re-frame the testing element as an evaluation with personal feedback from coaches.
I think one of the other suggestions was a very good idea.

> 1 Coach & 4 Students vs. 1 Coach & 4 Students

> Coaches take a back seat and evaluate.

> Coaches provide feedback to students on the team's performance, and can provide 1 on 1 feedback with individual students if this makes sense from a time perspective.




Something that might be useful for students, but not necessarily a part of a test or for graduation might be a set of self-evaluation questions for them to consider: 'What are my current strengths in PvP?", "What areas do I need to work on?", etc.

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