Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 751
# 21
02-12-2013, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?
Why are you even asking? You will not alter the BO seating at this point, nor significantly adjust the hull/shields, at least not downwards.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,098
# 22
02-12-2013, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I'm surprised to see this crowd dwelling on the price instead of the specs. But even so, here's an update I just posted to the original announcement thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=56

Totally my bad.

Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?
as with the RA level free version, these ships are balanced as far as fleet level ships go. but like i said, the universal eng seems like a false choice to some degree, making the ENS universal too would give you some true flexibility.

also i wish the kamarang had a LTC tac, a klingon battle cruiser that has stronger sci then tac doesn't make sense. the orian and gorn should have the more sci heavy ships, not the klingons. or maybe make another version of the fleet negvar having a LTC tac. a maneuverable kdf cruiser with ether the regent or excelsior station setup would be perfect, the fleet vorcha with the LTC and LT tac is too much, it cant quite serve the purpose i want it to, the fleet ktinga turns out to be a better ship because it can use AtB and tech doffs wile the fleet vorcha cant really.



also, like i said in the official thread, this just makes things worse for the galaxy and fleet galaxy. the problem is the 3 ENS eng stations mainly, that is the opposite of ideal for tanking or healing. it serves no positive purpose, and the ships has no real beter then average stat, its got the worst turn stat in fact, so its additionally a burden. separating the saucer doesn't do much to make it more dangerous when its only got 2 tac consoles too. at least the defiant is quick turning with its slightly unideal station setup. and theres so many good sci skills at ensign the intrepid setup is favorable. thats simply not the case for the galaxy, nothing is worse then having 3 eng ENS.

just release a second fleet galaxy then. they could release 'fleet varients' for other ships too

current- 2 universal LTs, and ENS, consoles can stay the same. making the non eng stations universal does not take away from what it can already slot.

war time variant- COM eng, LTC tac, LT eng, LT sci, ens uni. 4/2/4 consoles. do the same for the negvar too.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 02-12-2013 at 12:29 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 23
02-12-2013, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I'm surprised to see this crowd dwelling on the price instead of the specs. But even so, here's an update I just posted to the original announcement thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=56

Totally my bad.

Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?

Well, mai brought up the hull and I commented on it, but to be honest Bort I've all but given up hope that ships will have stats that follow some kind of logical balance.


I made a pretty comprehensive comparison of things like Fleet Fed & KDF ships pre-S6 with no real input of feedback, so I assumed that everything was WAI.



Here's what I don't understand, how does the systems team choose what Hull / Shield Mod / Turn rate a ship gets?


Why does the Ambassador get a turn rate of 7, that feels like an 8 (probably because the model is small and the turn axis is good - another long unattended balance issue) get more hull than the Odyssey class which has a turn rate of 6?

Why does it have more hull if it's so tiny?


Why do some Fed cruisers continue to languish with terrible turn rates with no compensating point in return**, especially when compared to ships like the Fleet Ambassador and Fleet Excelsior which are not only smaller, with better turn rates and near-equivalent or equivalent shield mods but they also get better hull on top of it and are clearly out-dated technology?

**(To be honest, outside of some mega-hull, there is nothing that compensates for the frustrating combat performance loss for a turn rate of 6 or worse usually).



Here are the other threads I mentioned: 1, 2.



Other than that, the ship is balanced and doesn't have any spammable items or consoles to worry about.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,044
# 24
02-12-2013, 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
just a commander eng on a cruiser is a bad fit, you cant cover your EPtS without using a more valuable station slot, even if you use damage control doffs because you need 2 slots still for 2 different EPtX skills. a universal ensign can at least put you on even footing with the ody.
TT1, DPB1
THY1, APD1
TS1

EPtS1, ET2, RSP2, AtS3
PH1, HE2, TSS3

...is where I would have the K'maj, compared to the following with the Kamarag...

TT1, THY2
TS1

EPtS1, AtD1, EWP1, AtS3
ET1, RSP1

PH1, HE2, TSS3

...which I went to after running this on the Mirror Vor'cha...

TS1, THY1
EPtS1, AtD1, EWP1, AtS3
EPtS1, ET2, RSP2

TSS1, HE2
PH1


Course, that's with an Eng using Torps/Mines (K'maj - just torps with Kamarag/Vor'cha).

With what I'm looking at currently for the Ambassador on one of my toons...

THY1, CSV1
TT1

EPtS1, RSP1, DEM2, AtS3
EPtW1, AtD1

ST1, HE2, TB3

...could go like the following with the Yamaguchi...

THY1, CSV1
TT1

EPtS1, AtD1, DEM2, AtS3
ST1, HE2, TB3
PH1, TSS2

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer

Swordsman Tip: You are your own biggest hurdle to becoming a better player.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,044
# 25
02-12-2013, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Why does the Ambassador get a turn rate of 7, that feels like an 8 (probably because the model is small and the turn axis is good - another long unattended balance issue)...
It picked up +10 Inertia on the Sovereign, so its 7 turns better than the Sov's 7. Its 7/40 will make the 6/20 of the Ody/Fleet Gal feel that much worse.

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer

Swordsman Tip: You are your own biggest hurdle to becoming a better player.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 26
02-12-2013, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
It picked up +10 Inertia on the Sovereign, so its 7 turns better than the Sov's 7. Its 7/40 will make the 6/20 of the Ody/Fleet Gal feel that much worse.
A curiosity btw. My fleet heavy retrofit cruiser has inertia like Galaxy, despite being like 4x smaller
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,098
# 27
02-12-2013, 12:40 PM
the problem is, there is nothing within the system that favors size, size in every instance is a negative, wile the smaller the ship is the better it is. which is insane.


all cruisers and escorts and sci ships have basically the same hitpoints, and the smaller they are the better they turn, with no actual bonus for being larger of any kind.

bigger ships should have more consoles, more hitpoints by like 5k, even more bonus power, and more universal stations if they are going to be saddled with terrible turn rates. turn rates should be calculated based on ship volume, that should be calculable in the ship modeling program used to make the models. quite a few escorts are bigger then cruisers, yet turn far better and have far better inertia.


turn rate is extreamly impotent for dealing with incoming fire, turning defensibly to protect shield facings is life saving. if you cant do that, you cant tank near as long, and you have to out heal incoming damage, something much more difficult and station power intensive then simply moving so a stronger facing is getting hit. most fed cruisers that die, die with 3 healthy shield facings
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,044
# 28
02-12-2013, 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the problem is, there is nothing within the system that favors size
T4 and Captain.

Galaxy
Defiant
Intrepid

Supposedly put on equal footing (silly to begin with, imho)...

...branching out from there - willynillyness ensues!

The best part, I mean, the ultrafrickingbest part - was done recently.

The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier.
Can launch JHAS.

Sure, sure - the Vo'Quv can launch B'rel BoPs - but who didn't picture them as the T1 B'Rel?

There is no T1 Bug. There's just the Bug everybody knows - love or hate.

The Dread Bug that can launch JHAS? The bridge should look like the cast for Expendables 2. It should have folks that never log, logging at first sight.

That's not the case...heh...not in the least.

Cryptic's squeezing a lot of ships into the current "gear level" - and well, they just don't logically fit it...

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer

Swordsman Tip: You are your own biggest hurdle to becoming a better player.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 29
02-12-2013, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?
Well we're getting used to see more and more powerful ships release after release, and complaining about it seems pointless since nothing changes anyway.

Performances? Well it's expected that people will use a Lt tac or sci in the universal boff slot. This cruiser already get 2 active space doff slots available due to the ensign + lt tac, so you don't need two conn officers to get your twi tac teams. They will use instead a warp core engineer to boost their power levels and 3 damage control engineers to spam EPTS 3. With a 2 parts romulan/omega set, this ship will have insane power levels, and of course, it will be almost unvulerable with a sci boff in the universal slot.

I fear that

Commander eng: Eng team 1, RPS 1, EPTS 3, Aux to sif III
Lt tac: TT 1, APD 1
Ensign tac: TT1
Lt Universal: HE 1, HE II
LtCmdr sci: TSS 1, polarize hull 1, TSS 3

Will make it the ultimate tank with the doffs i mentionned. This ship can likely outclass any cruiser in game due to the lack of useful eng power abilities.

You've just released an unkillable beast with this universal Lt slot combined to the two ensign tac slots available. Congrats!

Last edited by diogene0; 02-12-2013 at 01:46 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,020
# 30
02-12-2013, 01:54 PM
Now if PSW1 was something usable(worth a hill of beans)... This Kamarag with a romulan set would be nasty.
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