Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
I guess probably by now everybody had a similar experience.

Today while doing the Federation Minefield we were all waiting for 5 min in the facilities for someone to free the last freighter.
After someone did the job, we were all again waiting in the boss place for someone to repair the last facility (I did it).
Now, this is boring and absurd. I think it needs to be fixed somehow. Its not competitive, its oportunistic and favours dirty play.

A possible and easy solution would be to give a minute between the last freighter freedom and the appearance of the facilities frigates. And another minute between the last facility repaired and the boss spawn.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 186
# 2
02-13-2013, 09:52 AM
One way to help this, is to put much more "weight" on doing things for the mission, Free a freighter,its worth X, Get a mineral its worth Y. Right now its all about DPS, DPS and more DPS so folks don't want to miss out on it. Another way to do it, is map changes, no one can move until the objective is complete. The biggest problem is that they reward DPS so much more than anything else to the point that they have encouraged folks to not help in the overall goals of the mission. They've created a monster, but I'm not sure if they know how to fix it.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
# 3
02-13-2013, 12:38 PM
Well, yes, the DPS is another part of the story. But I see so many elite STFs in wich the optional is failed because everybody go to kill the gates and leave the probes to fly safe and sound. And that does not have to do with DPS, is because they know that defending the probes you wont get the highest reward (and this job is done usually by a high DPS ship like an escort or raptor).

I mean, if the biggest reward were for heals, they would be healing themselves next to a gate the whole STF. It may sound stupid and rare, but I am sure they would. And that does not do any good to the game itself nor to the fun of playing.

So the rewards given in each STF should be carefully selected, even those guys that defend well the probes (not everybody does it) deserve a good reward. Maybe not a 1st, 2nd, 3rd place but a reward according to your actuation in that STF. Maybe everybody did incredibly well, so they all deserve the best reward, or everybody did incredibly bad, so they get nothing. And the same for the minefield, so that people dont step on the rest to get their loot.

Last edited by alhucemas; 02-13-2013 at 12:43 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 4
02-13-2013, 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alhucemas View Post
Well, yes, the DPS is another part of the story. But I see so many elite STFs in wich the optional is failed because everybody go to kill the gates and leave the probes to fly safe and sound. And that does not have to do with DPS, is because they know that defending the probes you wont get the highest reward (and this job is done usually by a high DPS ship like an escort or raptor).
Two things.

Its random, whatever you get at the end its utter devoid of any connection of what you did during the STF so there is no point, getting the Optional means at least some extra Omega Marks.

More important, Optional is linked to losing conditions ... let over 10 probes go and you know what happens?

KASE FAILED! GOOD DAY SIR!

The only reason I would stick around but not do a damn thing is because at least it fails and I can do something with perhaps less Uguuuuuuuu challenged people instead of having to take Leaver's Penalty.

Also NO, no rewards from doing your job ... its quite possible to stop the probes at the same time at destroying the gate, current system is fine and not try to BS about rewards being DPS since they arent, they are RANDOM and always been RANDOM.

Last edited by f2pdrakron; 02-13-2013 at 01:42 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
# 5
02-13-2013, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Two things.

Its random, whatever you get at the end its utter devoid of any connection of what you did during the STF so there is no point, getting the Optional means at least some extra Omega Marks.

More important, Optional is linked to losing conditions ... let over 10 probes go and you know what happens?

KASE FAILED! GOOD DAY SIR!

The only reason I would stick around but not do a damn thing is because at least it fails and I can do something with perhaps less Uguuuuuuuu challenged people instead of having to take Leaver's Penalty.

Also NO, no rewards from doing your job ... its quite possible to stop the probes at the same time at destroying the gate, current system is fine and not try to BS about rewards being DPS since they arent, they are RANDOM and always been RANDOM.
Two things:

Well, maybe STFs rewards are completly random and people just dont know how to play them, maybe DPS is not the problem (and again, its not the purpose of this post).

But obviusly Federation Minefield and Gorn Minefield favours dirty play so I think they need a fix. And I dont have any problems getting 1st/2nd place.

Last edited by alhucemas; 02-13-2013 at 02:29 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 884
# 6
02-13-2013, 02:46 PM
There is nothing wrong with the Gorn/Federation Minefield missions. All the blame lies with the unrealistic reward scheme that discourages cooperation. I can't imagine any real military rewarding soldiers for selling out their teammates to get a few extra kills for themselves.

That said, if you're willing to wait until someone else plays the game for you, you totally deserve a team full of people who think the same way.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
# 7
02-13-2013, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpangel View Post
There is nothing wrong with the Gorn/Federation Minefield missions. All the blame lies with the unrealistic reward scheme that discourages cooperation. I can't imagine any real military rewarding soldiers for selling out their teammates to get a few extra kills for themselves.
I agree with you in that the reward system itself draws people to act that way. Changing the reward system for that mission could be another solution. Or at least reward cooperation.

Last edited by alhucemas; 02-13-2013 at 03:22 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,045
# 8
02-13-2013, 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alhucemas View Post
I guess probably by now everybody had a similar experience.

Today while doing the Federation Minefield we were all waiting for 5 min in the facilities for someone to free the last freighter.
After someone did the job, we were all again waiting in the boss place for someone to repair the last facility (I did it).
Now, this is boring and absurd. I think it needs to be fixed somehow. Its not competitive, its opportunistic and favors dirty play.

A possible and easy solution would be to give a minute between the last freighter freedom and the appearance of the facilities frigates. And another minute between the last facility repaired and the boss spawn.
The easy solution is, i normally get 1/2nd place and repair the facilities because it needs to be done. The problem is not the mission objective but human nature, maybe if "WE" hadn't been waiting 5 mins for someone else to finish the job it wouldn't have been an issue.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
# 9
02-14-2013, 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapla1755 View Post
The easy solution is, i normally get 1/2nd place and repair the facilities because it needs to be done. The problem is not the mission objective but human nature, maybe if "WE" hadn't been waiting 5 mins for someone else to finish the job it wouldn't have been an issue.
Yes, repairing the facility is a job that must be done. But nobody wants to find the boss already has half the hull or is almost dead when he arrives. The one that repairs the last facility misses the boss (against players with a decent level). And if you free the last freighter by the time you arrive to the facilities everything can be almost over.

It is not a problem of human nature. It is not an Isolated case.

Its natural that the people dont want to repair the last facility and dont rescue the last freighter with the mission as it is right now. Else, you are giving away your time on a mission so that another oportunistic player gets the reward (that maybe should be yours by right), and honestly, I am not up to it. But I also dont like to spend time doing nothing on a mission because nobody wants to do the dirty job (the no reward-what a waste of time job)

The problem here is that the honest and rightful winner decreases drasticaly his chances to get the 1st place reward (or even the 2nd), in opposition to the oportunistic player with less ability that (thanks to how the mission works right now) kills the boss and more frigates thanks to these dirty tactics.

Last edited by alhucemas; 02-14-2013 at 01:14 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
Unless there is a way to equalize opportunity, don't have 1st, 2nd 3rd. etc, but have tiers. If you accomplish a certain amount of damage you qualify for tier1 rewards. Everyone can get two purples, fine, but make that hard to do and make the mission have a decent rate of failure. This would give incentive for organized play and yet prevent over farming because there is a decent chance it will completely fail and you waste your time, plus daily cool down.
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