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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,675
# 21
02-13-2013, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
There's nothing wrong with phasers.
Er... outside of there being no logical reason why they do it. Other than a x/25 proc from a Mk I Phaser turret has the same proc chance as 125/100 proc from a Mk XII VR Phaser turret. That a lucky proc from them will kill shields, kill weapons, kill the ability to heal, or bring a target to a standstill. Yeah, nothing wrong with Phasers.

Tetryon might take some shields. Phasers might take all of the shields.
Polaron might take some energy from a system. Phasers might take all of the energy from a system.
Disruptors might reduce some hull damage resistance. Phasers might take the ability to use any ability requiring Aux that adds hull damage resistance.

Phasers are the most powerful proc. Maybe you wanted it to drop shields and it dropped engines instead - well, then that person might have gone from 90% defense to 15%. Maybe you wanted shields but got weapons - well, that person's not doing any damage to you now - may even end up wasting buffs. Wanted shields but got Aux - you burn through their shields anyway and they've got no Aux to deal with that damage.

Yeah, no problem with Phasers... /cough

Course, that's before you get into the hybrids with phaser procs.

If somebody wants to play Tuvok and pull a Covariant Phaser Pulse - then let them grab the Tac ability or fly a Sci. Phasers should have a different proc. Course, the proc fits in perfectly with the it's ON or it's OFF extreme mentality of everything else in STO....so why not have the worst form of RNG to boot, eh?


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 978
# 22
02-13-2013, 11:58 AM
It's balanced.

Otherwise it'd be an iWin button against everyone and PvP would be full of romulan plasma torps, just as it's full of bug ships now.

Actually if anything the romulan torps are overly powerful as they are, even with hazard emitters.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 23
02-13-2013, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Er... outside of there being no logical reason why they do it. Other than a x/25 proc from a Mk I Phaser turret has the same proc chance as 125/100 proc from a Mk XII VR Phaser turret. That a lucky proc from them will kill shields, kill weapons, kill the ability to heal, or bring a target to a standstill. Yeah, nothing wrong with Phasers.

Tetryon might take some shields. Phasers might take all of the shields.
Polaron might take some energy from a system. Phasers might take all of the energy from a system.
Disruptors might reduce some hull damage resistance. Phasers might take the ability to use any ability requiring Aux that adds hull damage resistance.

Phasers are the most powerful proc. Maybe you wanted it to drop shields and it dropped engines instead - well, then that person might have gone from 90% defense to 15%. Maybe you wanted shields but got weapons - well, that person's not doing any damage to you now - may even end up wasting buffs. Wanted shields but got Aux - you burn through their shields anyway and they've got no Aux to deal with that damage.

Yeah, no problem with Phasers... /cough

Course, that's before you get into the hybrids with phaser procs.

If somebody wants to play Tuvok and pull a Covariant Phaser Pulse - then let them grab the Tac ability or fly a Sci. Phasers should have a different proc. Course, the proc fits in perfectly with the it's ON or it's OFF extreme mentality of everything else in STO....so why not have the worst form of RNG to boot, eh?
Do all of the procs scale with power levels? I know for sure plasma DOT does not. My fleet mate runs his power levels at a minimum to boost his aux and shields power level, and still gets the same plasma DOT burn. I don't know about the others, but it wouldn't make sense for Tetryon, Disruptor, or Polaron to scale with power level. And, again, what it disables is random. Any disabled system can be repaired with a battery or Red Matter Capcitor, no? Who doesn't have at least one battery in their device slots?

Polarons on their own have the capability to completely drain a subsystem. And it's all subsystems, not just one, that is weakened. Combine it with other drain abilities (like Leach) and you get the same affect as phasers, except it can happen on multiple subsystems at the same time. Polarons are much more crippling when specced into it and combined with other drains. Phasers, with the exception of hybrids, do not benefit from skills or additional equipment. Carrying a battery won't necessarily fix all of your shutdown systems if they get enough stacking duration and instant drains.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,675
# 24
02-13-2013, 12:12 PM
Isn't it great that they added Phased Polarons?

edit: Phased Polarons that you can add Tet Glider to...a Plasma proc to...the KineticProc to...can run with Leech...can proc a placate...

...Extremes.

edit: Course, as p2wsucks is fond of pointing out - that crappy lil' Plasma proc can trigger the same full heal on a crit as dropping a Tric Torp on them...meh.

...Extremes.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser

Last edited by virusdancer; 02-13-2013 at 12:16 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 25
02-13-2013, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
There's nothing wrong with phasers.
Virusdancer already covered this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
If there's any weapon type to complain about, it is Polarons. There's a reason why they are referred to as "lolarons".
Pretty sure they are called lolarons from when they used to be terrible (before they got improved, and then subsequently toned down post over-improvement to their, I believe, current state).


With all of the phased polarons and phased tets running around in pvp, I can tell you that I have never once noticed a polaron proc or being affected severely by it.

I have, on the other hand, very clear memories of complete subsystem shut downs from Phaser procs, especially when they hit my Weapons, Engines or worst of all Shields. I'm sure healers are none too thrilled when their Aux gets hit.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 26
02-13-2013, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Isn't it great that they added Phased Polarons?

edit: Phased Polarons that you can add Tet Glider to...a Plasma proc to...the KineticProc to...can run with Leech...can proc a placate...

...Extremes.
I will admit to using the kinetic proc and plasma proc, but their damage is pretty weak. I tested my damage with 1.5 total damage (running all cannons), and I did 77k kinetic damage and 22k in plasma DOT.

I'm not a fan of the hybrid weapons. I'd prefer the extra modifiers over the procs.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,965
# 27
02-13-2013, 12:23 PM
then theres that jem console set ability that is basically 'trigger a phaser proc' it even tells attackers what to expect. seeing shields vulnerable above your ship is the last thing you will see, i don't think its possible to generate more player agro then having that visible on you.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 28
02-13-2013, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Virusdancer already covered this.




Pretty sure they are called lolarons from when they used to be terrible (before they got improved, and then subsequently toned down post over-improvement to their, I believe, current state).


With all of the phased polarons and phased tets running around in pvp, I can tell you that I have never once noticed a polaron proc or being affected severely by it.

I have, on the other hand, very clear memories of complete subsystem shut downs from Phaser procs, especially when they hit my Weapons, Engines or worst of all Shields. I'm sure healers are none too thrilled when their Aux gets hit.
When I was complaining in the siphon drone thread months ago, saying that leech still needed nerfing, we determined that my problem was that my fleet mate was using leech and polarons. The person who replied still called them lolarons for how over powered they were. If anything it went from being a big joke to being ridiculous.

If you aren't specced into Power Insulators (I am now), combining polarons with leech is quite devastating. In 1 on 1s with my fleetmate, my engines and aux would get completely shut down in every exchange we had (with the exception of a lucky 2-shot kill I got on him right after I decloaked). My shields power level would be drained enough that it offered little resistance to incoming fire.

Even with Power Insulators, enough stacked drains could do a significant drain on a ship.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 29
02-13-2013, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
we determined that my problem was that my fleet mate was using leech and polarons.
So you already realize it's not just polarons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
If you aren't specced into Power Insulators (I am now), combining polarons with leech is quite devastating.
1) You wouldn't skip on 25 to 30% extra hull points from structural integrity or 25 to 30% extra Shield value from Shield Systems, why would anyone skip Power Insulators?

2) Again, Polarons + Leech. 2 Items combined.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Even with Power Insulators, enough stacked drains could do a significant drain on a ship.
Key words = "stacked drains".


You can't use "stacked drains" as your baseline to compare polaron proc, which is one component, vs. what a Phaser Proc or Plasma Proc is capable of.


The phaser proc doesn't need anything else, it doesn't need a whole build around stacking effects - it just works, and it has a very dramatic effect with no skill ranks required.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,675
# 30
02-13-2013, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
I will admit to using the kinetic proc and plasma proc, but their damage is pretty weak. I tested my damage with 1.5 total damage (running all cannons), and I did 77k kinetic damage and 22k in plasma DOT.

I'm not a fan of the hybrid weapons. I'd prefer the extra modifiers over the procs.
What did you parse with? I don't have the Rom [Pla] consoles to see if they show up correctly or not. It's a royal PITA trying to get actual PDoT damage with ACT. Sometimes it covers the damage, sometimes it doesn't - it's the way the combat log's written.

Usually you'll have this:

13:02:07:18:33:04.1:: Plague,P (space added after : to avoid the smiley)

Sometimes though, you'll have this:

13:02:07:18:33:04.3::,,,,

That second one does not appear to belong to anybody - but if you look at the end you might see 5ljrah1.

But that doesn't help you any, because that 5ljrah1 is the same for anybody. The only real way to test is against a person or a NPC that doesn't use 5ljrah1.

Because otherwise, you won't be able to tell if the:

13:02:07:18:33:04.3::,,,,

Belonged to you or somebody else with the way it's written in the log.

Every line should have the datetime stamp, the entity name, and whether it's a (P)layer or (C)omputer entity. Hilbert can fix the parsing issue with some of the funky names added in S7 for attacks - but he can't do anything about the log not telling him who did the attack.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser
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