Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 374
# 81
02-14-2013, 07:53 AM
imagine everyone with battlecloak or cloak at all.. kerrat and (if) any future pvp map would feel soooo empty. i am a fed player but this would be wrong at some point. make the klingon battlecloak cooldown to 2-3 minutes and everything would be fine.
What ? Calaway.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 82
02-14-2013, 08:40 AM
I'm a fed player, and i agree that not every ship on the fed side should get cloak, and at the most, it should be maybe one per type (escort and cruiser are covered, small craft and sci maybe, but carrier might be OP) As for the actual cloak i've stated my opinions n that numerous times but here i will stick to all cloak should be "battle cloak" for both sides from the first available cloaking device. I should be able to activate it at any time combat or no since that's how it worked in the IP.



I honestly wouldn't mind if the fed version had a debuff when cloaked though so they took more damage or some thing reasonable, or letting the klingons have the better version of the cloak than feds. It just defeats the purpose of having cloak in general if you can't use it like they do in the show.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 83
02-14-2013, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpoks View Post
lol Good luck trying to find any logic in Cryptic's way of dealing with things.

They will write one thing in their own lore and then completely disregard it and counter it with another when it fits them.
How about declaring 'the Doctor' as a sentient being with his own rights as any living being in the lore and now using sentient A.I. that kills itself to counter it's enemies? Not quite the behavior of the Federation, the pillar of moral and ethic in the galaxy. I've noticed that cryptic will do whatever they see fit for the time being even if it means contradicting their own previous views.

However the point of the discussion was wheather the Fed. should be getting a cloak. I have a few points of why I believe they shouldn't:

-It's against canon (although I agree with the players that say the canon has gone down the drain in STO), I never use cloak on my Feds. because I'm a big ST fan and it doesn't seem right to me.
-It's against Federation principles to break treaties and their given word and I would hate it if the Federation in STO turns into an Earth-like conquering empire with disregard of everything else but their narrow minded current needs (which is unfortunately slowly happening). I understand that STO is an MMO and other rules apply, but honestly I believe that we can have the moral 'hero' faction even in an MMO without stepping on their principles and the point of their existence.
-It's game breaking - I am a firm believer that different factions/cultures should have a different view on their warfare and different branches of technology. For me the interesting part is this diversity. To each their own. Then when I go to PvP I have to use my tech. advantages to counter my opponent from the other faction. If we have the exact same it gets kinda' pointless and boring, at least for me.
-It's destroying the KDF - Feds. get KDF consoles through lockboxes. Feds get the Honor Guard through the rep. system (KDF does MACO as well). Feds have cloak on 2 starships. The Vesta, a sci-vessel can mount DHC. What we'll probably see next is Flight-deck cruisers for the Federation. I wonder what will be anyone's incentive to play the KDF, when you'll have all the KDF tech on the Fed. side and yet if you want to go KDF, you have to level up a Fed. to 25?
-Federation starships have other advantages - increased hull, better shield modifiers, better escort turn rates...what would be nice if the cloak is such a problematic issue for Fed. players is to be given tech that can improve their ways of countering/discovering it. But please, for Star Trek sake, let us not have everything the same on every faction.
What would be the point of a Romulan faction that I see many players are eagerly expecting if they get Fed. content, start at level 25 and the Feds. can get and fly all their ships and use all their tech? IMHO, we need to have more diversity, not less.
I perswonally don't care if Feds get cloaks or not, but, I think it's safe to say the "Canon" boat set sail a looooooooooooong time ago in this game and will never return.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/dofftrader/yoreantiques/DOFFtrader.gif
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 569
# 84
02-14-2013, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubblygumsworth View Post

If you want something, you have to give something first.
^^ this

And here is what you must give up
1) shield capacity
2) hull hitpoints
3) 1 boff slot
4) 1 console slot


just like the bop and b'rel etc...
Member since January 2010. I AM NOT A PWE FAN!!!!
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 318
# 85
02-14-2013, 10:39 AM
As far as I can tell, most of this talk of cloaks (why not capes?) hinges on fluff and the desire for a person's favorite ship to have extra abilities or do things it cannot currently do.

Simply put, there is currently no compelling gameplay reason to give Federation starships cloaking devices as a common feature. None. If Klingon vs. Federation PvP is to remain a game feature, then there needs to be a compelling reason to pick playing as a Klingon. There needs to be a measure of mechanical asymmetry. Klingon vessels get cloaking and canon-cruisers, while Federation gets more overall ships to choose from and greater resiliency and flexibility in general.

This honestly isn't about cloaking devices. If you want to have a starship that appears out of nowhere and rips into things, you can absolutely do that. You just play as a Klingon or pay money for one of the two Federation ships that have access to cloaking. That style of play is available right now for free.

I honestly believe that, at this point, it's more about people who want to enjoy a Klingon-faction sort of play style without giving up their favorite federation ship with it's super-cool load-out. Or "because of RP" or whatever.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,215
# 86
02-14-2013, 11:07 AM
Huh, what, a cloaking thread? Those never pop up...

First, cloak in its current state is mostly a gimmick in PvE, and PvP is mostly a gimmick at all times.... soo...

And second, just about any ship you could possibly want to fly can slip MES into the build somewhere for those odd times you really need to get your stealth fix.

Honestly, as "cool" as cloaking is, its not really all that to use. The last thing in the world that is affecting my gameplay is a ship cloaking. Unless they decide to give up Donatra's cloak to us my opinion will be the same. Cloak is a non-issue.

Maybe that's just because both my characters spent some points in sensors. I can see you anyway. Why do you care if your cloaked other then the short lived damage buff, that unless your in a bop you can't reapply anyway? And if you are a BoP, you have to drop your shields...

I play KDF, and most of my ships don't even cloak... Gumby, Kar'Fi, Vo'Quv, Maurader... Every so often I get into my BoP but its rare. Cloak just really isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 129
# 87 Response
03-05-2013, 04:18 PM
Let's see I wasn't meaning to start a whole bloody thing about whiny Feds or anything like that. But, since everyone is doing all this...Let's go back in to cannon history.

Kirk steals the Cloaking Device from the Romulans. This was actually done prior to the Klingons obtaining the cloaking device during the third technology trade with the Romulans.
1st Technology Trade - Obtain Warp drive technology that would allow them to obtain speeds to be a tactical element in the universe.
2nd Technology Trade - The Klingon K-Hulls. The Battlecruiser and a few other "older" designs. BY this time the Klingon Empire started to field photon-torpedo style torpedoes and they was also traded to the Romulans during this trade along with FTL beam weapons. The Old series battlecruiser didn't use torpedoes.
3rd Technology Trade - This dealt more with the Klingons obtain some items more than the Romulans obtaining the goodies. This is the trade that the Klingons received the Bird of Prey and the Cloaking Device. This is the BoP that all Klingon players love.

There has also been several published books that said the Federation did develop the cloaking device prior to the Klingons obtaining it. The Federation is known to have used the Cloaking device during "Special Operation" missions. This technology was also applied to buildings that the Federation used to observe lesser advanced civilizations.
It was stated that when Kirk turned the device over to the Federation Admiralty they tried to install it into another testbed ship, but the device failed to operate.

The Old-style Romulan Cloaking device isn't an individual operating device on its own. The device has to be plugged into the ship's shield grind. This is the actual reason why the starship's shield will not operate during the operation of the cloaking device. If both is operated, the starships shielding system will overload. This style of Cloaking Device was changed out to a system that was integrated into the starships hull. The Cloaking Device on the BoP is the tubular looking structure that is located on the upper forward section of the command boom's pod. When a starship operates its cloaking device it actually switches onto a passive sensor instead of an active sensor. This is the reason why a starship cannot fire weapons while under the cloaking device. The passive sensor can only scanner and detect objects, it cannot be used to fire weapons. This is like a sniper going and operating a laser targeting system in the middle of the night, its a dead give away. The Cloaking Device also draws an enormous amount of power from the starship's power grid.

All of these reasons. Passive Sensors, no shields, drawing power from the starship's power grid is the actual reasons that the Federation wouldn't use the cloaking device. Federation Captains would rather have the constant protection of their shields and be able to detect and identify a target rather than seeing only "sensor shadows". The fact that a treat was written with the Romulans that the Federation wouldn't use the device is just the writers reason not to use the device on Federation starships.

Cloaking Device used by Federation starships. The biggest example is the starship that was used by 7of9's parents while they was observing the Borg. They used a cloaking device to accomplish this. At no time did they mention where they got the device from, but it would be assumed that the device was an integrated part of the starship's design.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,100
# 88
03-05-2013, 07:11 PM
Well, there is actually a good reason for the Feds to start using cloaking tech now. In the show they didn't use it because of a treaty with the Romulans. Given the current state of the RSE, is that treaty still valid?
HAIL HYDRA!

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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 89
03-05-2013, 07:21 PM
Yes, and same reasons that where given in the last "feds want cloaks" threads and all the ones before it.
The President of the UFP declared the UFP and Star Fleet would not further use or research cloaking and honor the treaties signed in good faith with the Romulan and KDF.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 90
03-05-2013, 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trwarbuck View Post
Let's see I wasn't meaning to start a whole bloody thing about whiny Feds or anything like that. But, since everyone is doing all this...Let's go back in to cannon history.

Kirk steals the Cloaking Device from the Romulans. This was actually done prior to the Klingons obtaining the cloaking device during the third technology trade with the Romulans.
1st Technology Trade - Obtain Warp drive technology that would allow them to obtain speeds to be a tactical element in the universe.
2nd Technology Trade - The Klingon K-Hulls. The Battlecruiser and a few other "older" designs. BY this time the Klingon Empire started to field photon-torpedo style torpedoes and they was also traded to the Romulans during this trade along with FTL beam weapons. The Old series battlecruiser didn't use torpedoes.
3rd Technology Trade - This dealt more with the Klingons obtain some items more than the Romulans obtaining the goodies. This is the trade that the Klingons received the Bird of Prey and the Cloaking Device. This is the BoP that all Klingon players love.

There has also been several published books that said the Federation did develop the cloaking device prior to the Klingons obtaining it. The Federation is known to have used the Cloaking device during "Special Operation" missions. This technology was also applied to buildings that the Federation used to observe lesser advanced civilizations.
It was stated that when Kirk turned the device over to the Federation Admiralty they tried to install it into another testbed ship, but the device failed to operate.

The Old-style Romulan Cloaking device isn't an individual operating device on its own. The device has to be plugged into the ship's shield grind. This is the actual reason why the starship's shield will not operate during the operation of the cloaking device. If both is operated, the starships shielding system will overload. This style of Cloaking Device was changed out to a system that was integrated into the starships hull. The Cloaking Device on the BoP is the tubular looking structure that is located on the upper forward section of the command boom's pod. When a starship operates its cloaking device it actually switches onto a passive sensor instead of an active sensor. This is the reason why a starship cannot fire weapons while under the cloaking device. The passive sensor can only scanner and detect objects, it cannot be used to fire weapons. This is like a sniper going and operating a laser targeting system in the middle of the night, its a dead give away. The Cloaking Device also draws an enormous amount of power from the starship's power grid.

All of these reasons. Passive Sensors, no shields, drawing power from the starship's power grid is the actual reasons that the Federation wouldn't use the cloaking device. Federation Captains would rather have the constant protection of their shields and be able to detect and identify a target rather than seeing only "sensor shadows". The fact that a treat was written with the Romulans that the Federation wouldn't use the device is just the writers reason not to use the device on Federation starships.

Cloaking Device used by Federation starships. The biggest example is the starship that was used by 7of9's parents while they was observing the Borg. They used a cloaking device to accomplish this. At no time did they mention where they got the device from, but it would be assumed that the device was an integrated part of the starship's design.
What timeline are you refering to with Kirk? I do not remember him acquiring a Romulan coaking device in the TOS and only seen him have any experience with the KDF cloaking from when they captured the BoP on the third movie. Long long after the Klingons had teaded Battle cruisers and better warp drives with the Romulans for disruptors and cloaking technology.
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