Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,068
# 11
02-14-2013, 08:24 AM
From STOWIKI and highlighted for relevance:

This skill improves your Starship's Accuracy value. The higher your Accuracy, the more often you will hit a target. The target's Defense value can counter Accuracy. If your Accuracy exceeds a target's Defense, you cannot miss with an attack on that target. Furthermore, the amount by which your accuracy value exceeds the target's defense rating, is converted into additional Critical Hit chance and Critical Hit Severity ensuring that no points in this skill can be 'wasted' by exceeding the percieved 'hit cap'.

It is not confirmed if Starship Targeting Systems and Starship Maneuvers increase proportionally to each other (i.e. That 1 increment of Starship Maneuvers is equal and inverse to 1 increment of Starship Targeting Systems).

Due to the mechanic of converting 'overkill' in this skill into potential additional damage to the target, it is impossible to waste points in this ability, every point spent will increase damage dealt.

This skill certainly gives greater value in PvP than in PvE, but it is useful in all space combat situations.

This ability stacks with all other factors which affect Hit Chance and (when hit chance is over 100%) Critical Hit chance and damage, therefore, in a high crit build, maxing this skill can add a significant amount of damage dealt, especially against targets whom have not heavily invested in their defense.

I think you are assuming that because the ACC < DEF = 0 DMG, which is clearly not correct. All you will lose with ACC < DEF is the convertion to Crit H and Crit D.

A shot that misses completely does zero DMG. Think back to when FAW had 100% accuracy and the mess it made of anyone, back then it was Beamscorts online. There's a good reason [ACC]x3 weapons are the most expensive.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 12
02-14-2013, 08:24 AM
In the situation you mentioned (movement control such that acc>def), the access acc always gets converted into crth and crtd. I don't know the exact formula, maybe somebody does. But the point is, when you have control over your opponent, acc modifier is always going to behave like the other two mods, crth and crtd, that you are advocating here. Higher the acc rating, i believe more the roll into crth and crtd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
And you may want to consider that the Acc stat for BO3 happens to be busted.
Is this really so? In my experience I found evidence to the contrary. When I had 6 points in targetting and running a accx2 crth DBB, my hit rate was somewhere around 75-80%. Now I'm running accx3 DBB with 9 points in targetting and I'm consistently getting 90% hit rate. At least that is what my parser says.

Last edited by pokersmith1; 02-14-2013 at 08:28 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 13
02-14-2013, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Most of you guys likely already know all this so really this isn't for you. Someone was asking and it's easy to just post it here.

This is for a system of hits and crits that Bort at least has said is still current. So if some of the underlying rules have changed, OF COURSE this changes as well. What follows is really a way to see what it is you may want to have as a mod on your weps.

Acc as a stat is meaningless. Acc ONLY has meaning when you are comparing it to Def. There is no other time that Acc has any meaning. There are very few ways to gain Acc in the game. There's the trait, and there's a total of +30% on weps. There are some gear pieces in the game as well that add a small bit of Acc.
think you need to get out of cap and holds and karret and play real pvp in arens. sorry man but this is all incorrect. i know for a fact since pug had did a parser for all wep mods and acc came out with the highest damage. accx2 is 89% hit rate while accx3 is a 98% hit rate. and this was tested while moving.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 14
02-14-2013, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
The thing is, I still find myself missing on a BO2 with 1 [Acc] on the DBB while the target is held, so IDK exactly what to think. Maybe I need to give the TB a second longer to get ahold, maybe there's a baked in miss to BO. Anecdotal misses weigh heavily I guess.
And from my end, I'm showing a fairly high hit % ratio against non-held/tractored/stunned targets with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
Maybe I'm doing a disservice to my team but I do wait for opportune moments in arenas.
I don't think there is a single clear answer here.

Sometimes you can wait for a bit more opportune moments, other teams simply going on a fast enough offensive with constant high damage pressure can force the other team to stick to defense.


Obviously you need to find some opportune moments, but I don't agree that you can always 'take your time' doing so.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 15
02-14-2013, 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokersmith1 View Post
Is this really so? In my experience I found evidence to the contrary. When I had 6 points in targetting and running a accx2 crth DBB, my hit rate was somewhere around 75-80%. Now I'm running accx3 DBB with 9 points in targetting and I'm consistently getting 90% hit rate. At least that is what my parser says.
Yours, and basically everyone else's parsers as well.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 16
02-14-2013, 08:34 AM
Because we don't know how, exactly, excess ACC converts to CritH/CritD, it is hard to say how useful it is when the target has 0 defense. But, if we assume you sometimes want to shoot at moving targets, ACC must have some additional value.

Empirically, BO3 seems to miss a lot more with a DBB that has no [Acc] at all.

And of course there is always the question of whether anything works the way it says it does.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,068
# 17
02-14-2013, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post

And of course there is always the question of whether anything works the way it says it does.
Hit the nail on the head here!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 18
02-14-2013, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
Because we don't know how, exactly, excess ACC converts to CritH/CritD, it is hard to say how useful it is when the target has 0 defense. But, if we assume you sometimes want to shoot at moving targets, ACC must have some additional value.

Empirically, BO3 seems to miss a lot more with a DBB that has no [Acc] at all.

And of course there is always the question of whether anything works the way it says it does.

Here's Hilbert's summary.

Here's a link to the STOked episode that contains the spreadsheet on overflow. (Scroll to the bottom under "MATH").
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,299
# 19
02-14-2013, 08:43 AM
edit: I give a better example later in the thread.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba

Last edited by virusdancer; 02-14-2013 at 04:51 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,114
# 20
02-14-2013, 08:43 AM
I've posted these test results in multiple threads in the past, but I will reiterate.

I have done accuracy tests in controlled environments with fleet mates. And, I concur. ACC is not needed (well, maybe for beams).

Here was our first test:
My fleetmate had an [acc]x3 and [crth]x3 turret. He does not have the accuracy trait. I have the elusive trait and my defense was at 80%. This test was done without buffs and was parsed with each weapon firing about 500-1000 shots.
[acc]x3 = 150 DPS, 80% accuracy
[crth]x3 = 160 DPS, 60% accuracy
Despite having 20% less accuracy, [crth]x3 still had higher DPS.


From our second test:
A different fleetmate had 81.3% defense, and my passive accuracy was 25%. I tested a single [crtd]x3 DHC. With the [crtd]x3 DHC, I was able to hit him 80% of the time. Again, this was with between 500-1000 shots on target.

I did not test beams, but, in regards to cannons and turrets, ACC is not really needed unless you're trying to increase your weapon proc chances.

For my setup, I have all [crtd]x3 weapons on the fore, one [crtd]x3 turret on the aft, and two [crth]x3 turrets on the aft. I picked up the [crth] on the aft for increasing my critical hits and increase my odds at getting a Sensor Assault proc.
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