Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,176
# 21
02-14-2013, 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Here was our first test:
My fleetmate had an [acc]x3 and [crth]x3 turret. He does not have the accuracy trait. I have the elusive trait and my defense was at 80%. This test was done without buffs and was parsed with each weapon firing about 500-1000 shots.
[acc]x3 = 150 DPS, 80% accuracy
[crth]x3 = 160 DPS, 60% accuracy
Despite having 20% less accuracy, [crth]x3 still had higher DPS.
What about procs from the weapons?

With 1000 shots, that 20% less accuracy means 200 fewer chances for a proc. Heck, if it's a Phased Polaron Turret where the person also has Leech, Tet Glider, KineticProc, PlacOnCritProc, a Rom [Pla] consoles, etc, etc, etc, etc... you're giving up a lot for 10 DPS.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,874
# 22
02-14-2013, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
think you need to get out of cap and holds and karret and play real pvp in arens. sorry man but this is all incorrect. i know for a fact since pug had did a parser for all wep mods and acc came out with the highest damage. accx2 is 89% hit rate while accx3 is a 98% hit rate. and this was tested while moving.
Why arena is boring, everyone just zergs towards the center of map, while cap and hold fights get spread out more at different cap points, more opportunity for 1v1 battles and less relying on cross heals to save you just yourself. Feds seem to want to q more for cap and hold anyway rather then arena. Not sure why since it favors KDF more due to cloak but cap and hols always starts faster for me.

Dps isn't always what matters, its burst dps, and Acc doesn't hit hard enough, OP is right you need all crit mods. I use them on my bop with tractoring too and it works great. Also so many people don't know to keep their defense bonus maxed like cruisers moving at half speed to make turning easier that I can just kill them between my tractors then watch for an escort to waste omega then tractor and kill him, often with just 1 or 2 shots due to all the crit mods.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 23
02-14-2013, 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
think you need to get out of cap and holds and karret and play real pvp in arens. sorry man but this is all incorrect. i know for a fact since pug had did a parser for all wep mods and acc came out with the highest damage. accx2 is 89% hit rate while accx3 is a 98% hit rate. and this was tested while moving.
This is interesting and confirms a suspicion I've nursed for a week or so now... basically, I think if anything [Acc] is undervalued. The effect doesn't seem to be mild at all: I swapped out my old [Acc]x3s for some phased lols on a whim and my accuracy completely plummeted. With [Acc]x3 my overall accuracy is near to 100%; without it it can be anywhere from ~97 to as low as 85 at times, depending how bad I'm focused.

There seems to be some sort of critical point between [Acc]x2 and [Acc]x3 that makes the latter much more effective.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 24
02-14-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Dps isn't always what matters, its burst dps, and Acc doesn't hit hard enough, OP is right you need all crit mods. I use them on my bop with tractoring too and it works great. Also so many people don't know to keep their defense bonus maxed like cruisers moving at half speed to make turning easier that I can just kill them between my tractors then watch for an escort to waste omega then tractor and kill him, often with just 1 or 2 shots due to all the crit mods.
I know players (and I count myself among them) who can burst with or without weapon modifiers. Timing will always do more for you than any piece of equipment will.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,176
# 25
02-14-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Why arena is boring, everyone just zergs towards the center of map, while cap and hold fights get spread out more at different cap points, more opportunity for 1v1 battles and less relying on cross heals to save you just yourself. Feds seem to want to q more for cap and hold anyway rather then arena. Not sure why since it favors KDF more due to cloak but cap and hols always starts faster for me.

Dps isn't always what matters, its burst dps, and Acc doesn't hit hard enough, OP is right you need all crit mods. I use them on my bop with tractoring too and it works great. Also so many people don't know to keep their defense bonus maxed like cruisers moving at half speed to make turning easier that I can just kill them between my tractors then watch for an escort to waste omega then tractor and kill him, often with just 1 or 2 shots due to all the crit mods.
I marked the important part of what you said...and it's part of what Thissler is saying.

If you're flying a BoP in CnH or Ker'rat - then yeah, you can swoop in for the awesome alpha gank on the unsuspecting or otherwise engaged target... you can murderize them.

But that's all it is... it's a gank - it's an assassination.

It's not PvP. You might as well go kill NPCs for all the difficulty involved in it.

Granted, that's what the BoP's designed to do - it's designed for that playstyle. Otherwise, it gets chewed up and spit out without a second thought.

And that's not butthurt, lol - I die in all sorts of awesome ways - getting bslapped by a decloaking BoP while I'm not paying attention or doing something else...is pretty far down on the list of things that might upset me. Do some of the timeship crap that causes me to desync and need to restart the game...then I'll grumble.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 26
02-14-2013, 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
TLDR: Thissler's got some great CnH videos showing how a BoP can decloak and pin a target that's not paying attention for some awesome alphas.
Emphasis mine. (And I think you're making the same point I'm making).


Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
So depending on what you're planning on doing - stomping nubpugs in CnH or participating in Premade v. Premade or PUGmade v. PUGmade... you're going to want to plan your build accordingly.
I don't plan my build assuming that all of my opponents are going to be "nubpugs".

And if a build is effective in a Premade v Premade or PUGmade v PUGmade, it will also be effective in 'stomping nubpugs'.

The difference is that focusing your build on exploiting the fact that nubs, are in fact nubs, is really just self-aggrandizing kirk stuff IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
I have done accuracy tests in controlled environments with fleet mates.
5 v 5 in Arena vs. X Team, using Y ships, with Z strategy is not a controlled environment.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 27
02-14-2013, 08:56 AM
Was this ment a serious thread or?....

The fact that both Acc and CrtD/H can all be valuable is most likely the best conclusion we can come to.
Different builds, even tactics might require different mods to be fully effective, simple as that.

Example; BoP Alpha, Tractor beam (Assuming you always time it exactly when Omega's down on the opponent (Or PH) we can probably all agree that you gain the highest benefit with either [dmg]x3, [crth]x3 or [crtd]x3 weapons.

Make the rest up yourself. There really is not that much calculation and math needed to pick the right mods for the right situation.

Last edited by darkfader1988; 02-14-2013 at 09:02 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 28
02-14-2013, 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I marked the important part of what you said...and it's part of what Thissler is saying.

If you're flying a BoP in CnH or Ker'rat - then yeah, you can swoop in for the awesome alpha gank on the unsuspecting or otherwise engaged target... you can murderize them.

But that's all it is... it's a gank - it's an assassination.

It's not PvP. You might as well go kill NPCs for all the difficulty involved in it.

Well said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Granted, that's what the BoP's designed to do - it's designed for that playstyle. Otherwise, it gets chewed up and spit out without a second thought.
Agreed.

This is why the some players feel the BoP can be a liability to the team (Arena), and why other players feel like it has a massive advantage (Ker'rat).


Both of their assertions have a kernel of truth.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,208
# 29
02-14-2013, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
You can never stack enough Acc to overcome any ships Def. Just won't happen. You will always have less Acc. So once we start to compare Acc to Def we can see that we will always be missing with some of our attacks.
My acc x3 MkXII purple outperform anything else. I think the question one should ask oneself, is how often do you want to miss.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 30
02-14-2013, 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
My acc x3 MkXII purple outperform anything else. I think the question one should ask oneself, is how often do you want to miss.
Perhaps an even more important question is, how much of your Crits do you want to miss? A shot can both be marked as Critical and still marked a Miss. More accuracy practically and simply means more Critical hits actually having any effect. Log's wont show this nice side effect in the log summary

Im somewhat surprised this whole modifier stuff is still in debate after 3 years. Cant we simply make up our mind and be done with it, saves alot of misinformation on new people that come to STO's PvP world

Last edited by darkfader1988; 02-14-2013 at 09:07 AM.
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