Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,113
# 41
02-14-2013, 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
It has never been proven that Accuracy does anything for Procs at all, until proven otherwise I think most ppl will agree with me that Proc's are still weapon cycle based, not shot based. This goes for SNB doffs, Kinetic Cutter 2.5% proc, Reputation system procs, Weapon Procs, etc.

At least, last time my Acc x3 weaps didn't trigger more 2.5% procs than when I would use my [CrtD]x3 weapons on a steadily moving test subject moving with the exact same bonus defense.

The best thing I could think of is that the first shot of a weapon cycle actually decides whether a proc could occur depending if the first shot in the volley is a hit or a miss, but I strongly doubt even that theory.

But be my guest and prove me wrong.
Bort had mentioned recently a desire to improve what the log shows...until then, what could even be used for the test? I've always assumed the proc worked off the first shot - much like the chain crit does. It checks on that first shot.

Would be nifty if Bort could just pop in and say one way or the other, eh?

Hrmm, for that test though - something like this:

Escort A following Escort B around.

Escort A having the Kinetic Proc and testing with the following weapons:
DC w/ no ACC
DC w/ ACCx3
DHC w/ no ACC
DHC w/ ACCx3

With the different shots per cycle and the difference in ACC for the To-Hit - one should be able to muddle through the raw log to see where the 751.4's landed in the firing cycles.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 42
02-14-2013, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
Yeah I ment the 2.5% proc from equipping both the Assimilated module and the Kinetic Cutter.

It basically gives 2.5% chance (The same amount as your innate weapon proc) to all your equippd weapons. (You see it in the tooltip when you hover over your weapons in your tray)

Same proc chance as your internal weapon procs, so yes for every time each of your weapons start a cycle it has a chance to proc, and that nadion-like resistance is simply applied in a time period of 3 seconds over all your weapons basically (since it affects your weapon power in a specific way that basically always affects all of your Energy weapons)



Yeah, Imagine having a 2.5% proc chance on all your weapons, and for every shot that 2.5% could be procced, for EVERY shot, on a full DHC/Turret build i.e, the amount of phaser procs you could achieve is simply absurd.
ok said like this makes much more sense.

even still, dont you want your cycle to have a higher chance to hit?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,114
# 43
02-14-2013, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
very incorrect on this. tact console from lobi store, rom bo, borg console, zero point console. yeah just uped your crit rate buddy. time to push that acc over the top to make every shot land and keep procing that lame 1v1 t4 passive.
Excluding the Romulan tactical BOFFs, the best you could get your passive critical hit to is 8.9% with all of the consoles you mentioned.

With all purple tactical BOFFs, you can get that to 15.9%. Yes, 6% from crthx3 isn't a massive increase, but my crthx3 turrets are in the middle and right aft weapon slots. These turrets are going to be doing the least amount of damage compared to everything else. I'd rather increase my chances of getting the placate to activate than trying to do more damage with the last two weapon slots.

Even if I had accx3 in those two slots, I've already stated that crth already does more damage despite having less hits through actual testing in a controlled environment. The only reason I'd want accx3 is if I wanted to increase my chances to proc. But, apparently, it's determined by cycle and not on number of hits.

Last edited by shookyang; 02-14-2013 at 09:29 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,113
# 44
02-14-2013, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjohnsonva View Post
Might be worth an indepth search as I'm just going from memory.
Bort's got 32 posts with the term "proc" in them... I'll be back in a little while to see if there's anything there. Of course, if it was an Archived Post - forget it, lol.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 45
02-14-2013, 09:29 AM
even still acc is turned into over flow. so you get 2 free mods rolled into 1. so even tho its not per shot like i thought ( glad to be corrected on this) if anything just spam csv. that seems to make stuff proc more.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 46
02-14-2013, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
even still acc is turned into over flow. so you get 2 free mods rolled into 1. so even tho its not per shot like i thought ( glad to be corrected on this) your cycle is still being dictated to hit your target. if anything just spam csv. that seems to make stuff proc more.
The overflow in practice cannot be compared to 2 full CrtD/H weapon mods I'm afraid. There is a Excel spreadsheet somewhere floating around which shows exactly the benefit of the overflow with Acc vs Defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
even still acc is turned into over flow. so you get 2 free mods rolled into 1. so even tho its not per shot like i thought ( glad to be corrected on this) if anything just spam csv. that seems to make stuff proc more.
Not sure on CSV, but could it be slightly possible that whenever your weapon with CSV procs on one target, the same proc also applies to any other target affected by the CSV's AoE? Never tested that tbh but I could imagine it could work that way. (I thought CRF and CSV decreases DHC/Turret weapon cycle cooldown if I recall correctly)

Also I'm not exactly sure anymore about the Weapon cycle cooldown decrease, I've been absent for like 3 months so I'm not 100% clear on everything, but any ability that reduces your (DHC/turret in this case) cooldown cycle basically increases your 2.5% proc rate as well, at least it should proc more theoretically in a shorter timespan.

Last edited by darkfader1988; 02-14-2013 at 09:36 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 47
02-14-2013, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
The overflow in practice cannot be compared to 2 full CrtD/H weapon mods I'm afraid. There is a Excel spreadsheet somewhere floating around which shows exactly the benefit of the overflow with Acc vs Defense.
thats why i did an edit. but ide rather hit more often, have a higher hit rate even tho i have less of the other 2 mods. can always boot crit, seems way to easy as well with rom bo and consoles.

still the over flow is there. in fast paced pvp i need thoes shots to land. if a guy is on an evasive so many times ive had crith x3 or critdx3 shooting at him because hes almost dead and i just see miss miss miss and he gets healed up. with my accx3 hes doing the same thing except my turrents finished him off before he could get the heals.


yes bit diff in premade games for sure because of always having extends. but some times you need that acc to kill off the last 3000 hp a guy has left when hes in his death spiral evasive
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 48
02-14-2013, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
ok said like this makes much more sense.

even still, dont you want your cycle to have a higher chance to hit?
Do we? And I'm not asking this sarcastically or rhetorically. With adaptive shields and healing procs and the obituary for pressure damage, shouldn't we build for bigger hits less often?

And guys, climb off of Thissler's back for Kerrat and CnH, I use the same philosophy in arenas without a cloak. It doesn't invalidate his argument.

Currently when I get a good escort pilot I watch buffs and try to pin them and unload with [crit] mods. In the meantime I try to survive with abilities and positioning. Would I do better to watch buffs just the same but instead of pinning them just unload with [Acc] mods and devote my hold slots to more heals?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,874
# 49
02-14-2013, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
I know players (and I count myself among them) who can burst with or without weapon modifiers. Timing will always do more for you than any piece of equipment will.
I try accx3 weapons even on an escort with just a Lt sci. I don't have tractor on it since I like 2 heals and had too many times of having to run away and exit combat to equip ones with more crit mods. People that I wasn't able to kill with accx3 like yourself on Jellybelly, I got a few kills on with CrtHx3 in a fvf cap and hold match a couple weeks ago along with another Panda bugship. Granted I still died more lol as I am much more suited to BOP then playing a fed escort but at least had a chance where as the Accx3 weapons I tried at the beginning and switched out again.

One problem for me I guess is its easy for me to time bursts in a cloaked ship since Im not evading and shooting back yet so easier to watch buffs, but since I pick when to attack and tractor I don't need ACC anyway. When in a Fed escort and not being cloaked I can watch buffs sometimes, but can't always spot them going down all the time when things get hectic. It seems even with missing a lot without the tractor, the crit mods just give so much damage when they do hit it makes up for it and often just lets me rip right through buffs when I do hit. Sort of a brute force approach compared to precision using acc weapons.


I guess it depends on style, I'll try the accx3 weapons again sometime and try to be more careful with them and see how they do.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,113
# 50
02-14-2013, 09:40 AM
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...oc#post5822041

Is a post stating the SNB DOFF proc is once per firing cycle.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...oc#post6684651

Another post about the SNB DOFF proc being per activation.

And that's all I found in the 32 posts...
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
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