Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > Klingon Gameplay
Login

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 161
02-13-2013, 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarx View Post
It's a bit of an oddball time to call for peace when the war itself hasn't really been played out yet.

Even during the run of TNG the Alliance itself was rather shaky and one-sided with pretty much all the concessions being given to Klingon sensitivities, and all that effort didn't seem to do anything but lead the Klingons to holding the Federation further in contempt.

And perhaps that was the problem with the Federation-Klingon Alliance... no real sharing of values,and no logical reason to keep them together.
What about the time when they needed the Fed to act as arbitor of seccesion.

What about all the hybrids out there like B'lanna Torras.My Fed tac has 15% Klingon in her.
Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 289
# 162
02-13-2013, 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by age03 View Post
What about the time when they needed the Fed to act as arbitor of seccesion.

What about all the hybrids out there like B'lanna Torras.My Fed tac has 15% Klingon in her.
First, was timing and clearly, a plot device from the TV show. Schlepping is what schlepping does. Hey, the script was paid for and people got to tune in. Did it make sense versus lore? No, but most of the writing in the shows wasn't to make lore solid but sell shows, commercial time, and hopefully for writers to stay employed long enough to write some more for the next season.

Hybrids just meant someone had sex. Nothing more to read into that. Maybe it was like, "I drank too much last night..." "Oops". Personal unions should not determine the fate of empires any way.

Some feddie officer: "Stop! I am 1/16th Klingon... I have so much respect for your people!"

*sounds of many disruptors firing at once*
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,562
# 163
02-14-2013, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by age03 View Post
What about the time when they needed the Fed to act as arbitor of seccesion.

What about all the hybrids out there like B'lanna Torras.My Fed tac has 15% Klingon in her.
Oh, if only the rules allowed the off-colour jokes I could make off that last sentence...

1) The High council needed a 'friendly neutral' to break the deadlock in a way that did not break the Empire. the alternative being a bloody and fratricidal civil war at a time when the Houses weren't interested in a bloody and fratricidal civil war, but minus the Emperor (Kahless-clone wasn't even a glimmer in some scientist's eyes yet), the likelihood was a civil war with no winner (well, except for the Empire's competitors). By bringing in an outside arbiter the decision could be made, and only the most hard-core opposition could oppose it-after all, "Foreign Policy" in the post-Khitomer period, including Diplomacy, was likely the major point of separation between Gowron and Duras, so seeing what the Empire's major ally thought was probably a good idea given the RSE's recent forays out of their isolation at the time.

2) "Diplomatic Legitimacy" is a long-used tactic in internal politics in the "Real world", esp. among/within nations that are effectively military dictatorships. (including Large or powerful nations-How do you think Boris Yeltsin held on to power for so long?)

3) Gow'wron likely would've won the Chancellorship by other means (re: "Violent and bloody civil war") without Picard's diplomacy-to be viable as an outsider (or seen as viable) and viable as a successor he had to have enormous 'pull' with the common Klingon-while Duras had great pull inside the council (or he, too, would not have been seen as viable by EITHER the council, OR his Romulan Masters). The sitting Chancellor needed a game-changer to preserve the Empire's political, military, and cultural integrity-and probably already KNEW about Duras' deal w/ the RSE, or he likely would NOT have brought the FEds in-and he did not TELL the feds because a Federation over-reaction would only have legitimized the treason Duras was engaged in.


Remember: it was KLINGON intelligence that spotted and understood the Cardassians linking to the Dominion, and it was KLINGON, not Federation or Romulan, intelligence that saw and understood the Undine infiltration-Klingons are more than "raar me smashes", the internal politics is, by definition, machiavellian to a level that most of their competitors dare not go-this will tend to spawn highly competent and effective Intelligence services (at MINIMUM at the House level, if not the National).

In short, the Chancellor was using the Federation to find the infiltrator in the manner that a farmer might drive a sickly cow across a minefield to clear a path to grazing for the healthy ones...
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,029
# 164
02-14-2013, 12:12 PM
Heck first figure out what the war is even about. What is J'mpok's trying to achieve? Rooting out Undine? Territorial desires? Full conquest of the Federation? A simple apology from the Federation Council? A simple lust for battles to fight? From all the Path To 2409 stuff, I'm not sure what the strategic objective is, and who wages war for zero reason? Even B'vat had a reason.

The only thing I get from the history is that J'mpok was embarassed by Taris, blamed the Federation rather than admit his own mistakes, and has held a grudge ever since. Is this whole war really just one guy lashing out to hide his own insecurities?
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,533
# 165
02-14-2013, 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
Heck first figure out what the war is even about. What is J'mpok's trying to achieve? Rooting out Undine? Territorial desires? Full conquest of the Federation? A simple apology from the Federation Council? A simple lust for battles to fight? From all the Path To 2409 stuff, I'm not sure what the strategic objective is, and who wages war for zero reason? Even B'vat had a reason.

The only thing I get from the history is that J'mpok was embarassed by Taris, blamed the Federation rather than admit his own mistakes, and has held a grudge ever since. Is this whole war really just one guy lashing out to hide his own insecurities?
-J'mpok knows that the Federation is infiltrated by Undine. Heck, even Starfleet Inteligence knows it if you read the STO lore. So what is J'mpok & KDF suposed to do? Ofcourse that they'll wage war against a Federation lead by Undine infiltrators.
-The Federation fleet intercepted & destroyed the KDF fleet led by Worf acting to protect the Romulans from KDF invasion after the destruction of Romulus, while the Federation was suposed to be an ally of the Klingon Empire. One thing Klingons never forget is betrayal in their eves. That's the reason they despise Romulans so much.
-J'mpok acting as Chancellor or the Klingon Empire announced that the Empire is taking back their lost systems to the Federation in the past. In DS9, Gowron acting as Chancellor told Sisko that when the KDF is involved in war, not even he as Chancellor can put an end to it without the Klingons having a victory and conquering something. It would put and end to his honor, life and probably House as well. So peace = one of the blue or green sectors turning red.
-And last but not least - the KDF in order to increase it's capacity and counter an ever expanding Federation has signed a list of alliances and non-agression pacts with certain species. Most prominent of them at least according to starship contribution to the KDF are the Orions & Nausicaans.
When you talk peace, you must take into consideration the new allignment of the KDF and it not being only Klingon. Orions are marauders and Nausicaans are pirates. They attack Fed. ships & trade convoys and then hide under the protection of the KDF in Klingon space. How would peace fit them?

If these reasons are not enough I don't know what else to say. They certainly are enough for me.

----------------------------------------------
Show your support for the Revamped Galaxy Class Exploration Cruiser here!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,029
# 166
02-14-2013, 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpoks View Post
If these reasons are not enough I don't know what else to say. They certainly are enough for me.
Those are reasons to dislike someone, to fight. (Though I completely missed the Fed-destroys-Klingon-fleet thing. If that were the case, shouldn't this conflict have started 20 years ago? Got a link?) But what is the long-term strategic objective? IS there an objective? Or is it just "I'm mad at you so I'm going to kill you" ? What is a satisfactory outcome to all of this?
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,533
# 167
02-14-2013, 04:31 PM
I'm not sure, it's a part of the lore "path to 2409" thingy I think. I'll post it when i stumble upon it again.

The way that the events have played out, I think that the KDF has two possible strategic goals in the war against the Federation.
One would be purging the Federation of Undine, or forcing it to take action purgin them from their own ranks (which has not happened in the Federation yet, they're behaving quite ignorant I don't know why).
The other would be establishing Klingon control & supremacy in the disputed systems that J'mpok announced the KDF is "taking back". By doing this he could preserve his honor on his word and Klingon tradition of conquest when going to war as well as revenge for the conflict in Romulan space.

Edit - I must however mention Spock's statement quoting J'mpok - "Only in war a Klingon is trully a Klingon". So as far as that goes I guess "I'm mad at you so I'm going to kill you" works for him as well.

----------------------------------------------
Show your support for the Revamped Galaxy Class Exploration Cruiser here!

Last edited by shpoks; 02-14-2013 at 04:34 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
# 168
06-08-2013, 01:51 PM
I think the Federation, and Klingons should ally against the Undine, Borg, and Tal Shiar.

I consider both faction's skirmishes with the Tal Shiar, and assistance to the Republic a form of war.

Of course the battle with the Borg is war.

There are many threats against Klingons, Republic, and Federation, war is everywhere, therefore I consider this time of warfare GWI, Galaxy War I.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,562
# 169
06-08-2013, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
Those are reasons to dislike someone, to fight. (Though I completely missed the Fed-destroys-Klingon-fleet thing. If that were the case, shouldn't this conflict have started 20 years ago? Got a link?) But what is the long-term strategic objective? IS there an objective? Or is it just "I'm mad at you so I'm going to kill you" ? What is a satisfactory outcome to all of this?
Long term strategic objectives (there are more than 1)

A. recovery of lost territory/prestige IS a legitimate reason to go to war, even in some human societies of long and respected standing.

B. do you want a (formerly friendly) superpower (who've had access to your technical databases for decades, as well as an influence on your culture and economy) on your doorstep run by hostile infiltrators intent on conquering your immediate stellar neighbourhood? If the answer is "Yes" you have a real problem with understanding where your best interests lie. If "no" then welcome to the KDF. The federation's government and Starfleet are under the thumb of foreign infiltrators, hostile foreign infiltrators. it's about removing the Undine.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 170
06-08-2013, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Oh, if only the rules allowed the off-colour jokes I could make off that last sentence...
What exactly is wrong with it with out the off coloured jokes ever heard of the pm system or you can come over to my boards and say this if you got the guts to?
Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:09 AM.