Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 185
# 71
02-14-2013, 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by chaddy18 View Post
Yes we are earning more dilithium, but what's the point unless the refining cap is increased to reflect this
Average max level player refining per day is nowhere near the cap yet. Once the average Dilithium refined per day by max level players gets closer to the cap, we'll consider it.

There are two additional big changes coming in May that will greatly improve a Fleet's abilities to complete projects, I'm just not at liberty to talk about them yet.

We have a small fleet ourselves (with no cheaty dev accounts either) and we're only at T3 - so we understand how challenging it can be if everyone isn't playing the right content or contributing.

We are beginning the tuning process that will get us to where we want to be for the big May update and that includes adding new things and balancing existing things.

Fleet Marks will becoming common rewards for "Group Queued Gameplay" whereas Dilithium will be focused on more solo Mission Gameplay.

We appreciate that there is frustration about losing the Fleet Marks in the Foundry, but Fleet Marks were never intended for solo based gameplay.

Balancing is no fun, but we hear the suggestions that trying to get in the groove with a standard set of content is important. That is where we are trying to go without horking the economy.

And to answer the naysayers - STO had its best month of growth ever and the game is only going to get bigger, expecially this summer. We do look at the economy reports every day. Players ARE earning more Dilithium AND more Fleet Marks than they ever have.

Removing the Marks from the Foundry needed to happen, and since it was scheduled to come off after the Anniversary, it did. We will get Fleet Marks back into more appropriate content quickly as we did after Season 7 launch.

I appreciate that we don't always make good decisions. We do listen to feedback and we do adjust in order to make things better for everyone.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,902
# 72
02-14-2013, 06:58 PM
"So we have a game mechanic to acquire a much-needed in-game currency for fleet progression, then we take that away despite telling you guys we're giving you more ways to earn fleet marks. But don't worry, even though we don't have a solution ready despite this game mechanic being here for a considerable period, knowing it was being exploited, just keep calm and relax knowing that more ways to get fleet marks are coming in the future. Maybe. Eventually. And they could be thoroughly tested. Possibly. But hey, if you don't like it, then just merge your fleet with a larger fleet, because at Cryptic, we don't care about individuality or giving you more options anymore. You must maintain lockstep with the rest of the mega-fleets in STO, and if you don't like it, too bad. We'll get to it when we want to, if we want to."  39147
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 178
# 73
02-14-2013, 06:59 PM
Merging fleets as a solution to the resource issue? Dan, a fleet is not a corporation. When a fleet is having trouble, it's not going to consider a buyout by a larger corporation in order to stay business. A fleet is NOT, I repeat, NOT, American Airlines. A fleet should not consider merging with another fleet to stay afloat, because in doing so both fleets lose something intrinsic to their nature, I.E. their individuality. This is not Eve. Fleets are not corporations. They do not enter Chapter 11 Bankruptcy when they run low on resources and have to find a buyer or merger partner from their creditors.

The opinions expressed in my posts are not necessarily those of my employer or Subspace Radio.
PS: My show is actually at 0300 GMT these days. I really need to dig up the PSD for that signature and redo it.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 101
# 74
02-14-2013, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
So, your option A was to not give small fleets as much and your Option B was to make them die of boredom grinding this crap out.

How about Option C: MAKE THE HOLDING COSTS SCALE! It cannot POSSIBLY be that hard to add into a system a mechanic that takes the number of characters in a fleet and does simple math to generate the costs. I'm taking Introduction to Computer Programming, Programming 101, right now. I've had 5 classes, in a class that uses C++ (the language this game is coded in, you said it in the 3-Year Q&A), and I could probably do it!

Or, how about Option D: Alliances, where several fleets can pool resources and build a starbase TOGETHER! Hell, all Fleet Starbases are in the SAME STAR SYSTEM! Why can we not help each other?

Really, Dan? You DESIGNED the system to SCREW OVER your players? When's that been good for business? "Oh, our customers don't like this, let's make it worse." I'm an LTS, I've bought ZEN on rare occasion. I've supported this game, and I say NAY. A business doesn't make money when the customers are pissed, because angry customers don't buy their stuff. I DARE you to make a poll asking whether or not people approve of these changes and how the system works. I'm willing to bet the negative response rate would be over 80%.

Stop shafting small fleets!

Completely agree!
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 73
# 75
02-14-2013, 06:59 PM
Ok, your data shows that more fleets are starved for dilithium than fleet marks. I imagine that this is true. Its something Ive been posting and talking about since you removed the clickies. But if someone is starving because they eat rice daily and do not have enough protein in their diet then the answer is not to remove their rice.

Its hard to build a fleet with 25 players that play 3 times a week.

People dont have fleet marks outside of the foundry because fleet mark content is not fun.

Ive seen major fleets with 450 members or more threaten to demote or kick people out that did not donate. People are not playing the game for fun anymore. They play to do what they have to do and what devs tell them to do or their fleet leaders tell them to do.

Personally, I had to take command and charge of a fleet that I led because I didnt want players kicked out of it for not doing "fleet" missions and meeting required demand donations. It was pretty nasty. And this was a big fleet.

Im sure small fleets feel a lot more stress on obtaining resources. And it shouldnt be too bad so sad, merge your fleet, or leave and find a bigger one.

Its better for fleet progression to be too "easy" than too "hard".

Im tired of players that freaking work hard doing missions they dont like being called out for "exploiting" the system. In our fleet families, I try hard not to tell people how to have fun or what they need or should do. Most players want to do fun things and enjoy the game. This does not include hated missions, foundry missions they do not like, and terrible cryptic fleet mark missions.

To get a fleet with 25 players that "donate" to fleet mark missions you need a fleet of 250 players. Because many members are going to spend their dilithium on their own toons, and arent going to work to get fleet marks for donations. Working for your fleet and not for yourself is something many players just arent going to do.

Its frustrating for nice fleet leaders that do not want to "make" or "require" their members to donate and its huge amounts of drama for those fleet leaders that do "require" or "demand" their members to treat membership like a job rather than a game.

That sir, is why small fleets are struggling. They are lucky to have people show up and even play. Getting people to play what they do not want to play is another matter altogether. A few people do things they dont want to but not all that many. If people like STFS they do them. If they like foundry they do that. But the fleet mark missions are universally unloved, thats why people formed teams and did the foundry.

You should think on this sir, if you are giving out more dilithium then why is it that fleets are universally stuck on projects and limited time upgrades that need dilithium, then please ask yourself why so many fleets are struggling to meet their dilithium needs. Its because fleet members do what they want with their earnings and giving them to fleets isnt always their top priority. There is lots of competition for dilithium outside of donating to your fleet. People that want an Aegis set and need 55K plus dili to craft it arent just thrilled about doing 60 foundry missions so they can do this and give 5K dilithium to their fleet as well.

Players spend their earnigns on themselves not fleets. Thats why giving fleet marks that gave them some abilitiy to earn contributions and donate contributions from the foundry was a good idea. They may still do foundry for dilithium but much of it will never see a fleet holding.

This change is universally unloved and even moreso by fleet leaders that want to kindly and gently guide their starbases and embassies into a semblance of progression.

Theres already a lot of hate, and anger, in fleets between those that donate and earn and those that do not. Its rare to find a fleet leader in a high tier fleet that got there with extreme gentleness and asking politely for leftover donations.

Many fleet leaders appreciated these exploits because it gave them options to progress while being nice about not requiring or pushing members to donate. Small fleets are just going to get crushed because I know in my heart that if you have 25 people in your fleet not all 25 are going to earn and give.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,350
# 76
02-14-2013, 07:00 PM
Dan, you havent changed since you came into office, your word "no affence here this is just good critism on my part" means nothing. You made a long speach about one change that everyone doesnt like (its plainly obvious). Might as well made a novel. My fleet is small, 10 man possibly if not a little more, we have a hard time getting dil and fleet marks. You guys dont reduce projects for smaller fleets, as youve mentioned before. We understand the fleet system isnt ment to be done in a day, but i dont know about you but id like to see t5 sometime in my life time. You might as well consider this a retired persons game because theres no way you can get ahead with the prices you put things in game.

At this point dan... i came back from TOR to give this game another shot, but the way you guys are handling this game, at this point, I'm really thinken about going back, i love startrek but not enouph to support the actions of a team that makes you grind your life away... fix things, *again no affence here* or find an executive thats going to listen to the player base instead of making bad choices..

Here is what i suggest and my thoughts... (foundry is a fleet activity) me and my fleet and iam sure others do as well use it for fleet events, its great fun and not a SOLO based system as youve put out, put the 50 fleet marks back to how it was. End of story, its a group activity. I personally and my fleet hate doing reptitive tasks as the foundry was the one things that gave us fleet marks that didnt feel like a boring grind, because frankly you guys cant add more content in time to keep us stimulated.. now your FORCING us to do fleet actions to obtain marks... yay thanx dan for making this game so fun... i see your doing your job just like the past 3 years.
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Last edited by xlocutusofborgx; 02-14-2013 at 07:19 PM.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,673
# 77
02-14-2013, 07:01 PM
I am now looking at my Email, this is the following message:

Thank you for your support! We'd love to hear what you think. Answer the question below and tell us how you feel about Perfect World and its games.
Needless to say what I view of the only PW game I played, this will be send I assure you and I do bless the timing.

As for the rest ... I leave at this, MINIMUM requirement to create a Fleet is 5 people so therefor any balance should been based on the minimum requirement to create a Fleet because that is what necessary to be a Fleet.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8
# 78
02-14-2013, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by foundrelic View Post

My fleet is currently 5 members. Not for lack of trying to recruit but more because people are already either in a cooking fleet or they've have their own fleet and don't want to give it up, even if said fleet is only them.

They don't like the idea of, and this is exactly what I was told, "Being told what to do by someone else in a fleet."

Then there are those looking for a free ride.

"Hey what tier is your fleet?"

"Two, working towards three."

"Oh... well when you're tier three or higher keep me in mind."

That earns a great big F....uggetabout it.

Meanwhile my fleetmates are still picking along at the base. We WILL get there but when we do, will we want anyone else to come in and take advantage of our work?

Small fleets are SCREWED in this system.

You want to make fleets more managable without "Making it easy"?

CLose the ability to make new fleets for a while OR make it harder to create a fleet, because I guarantee I could log in right now and in five minutes have a one man fleet on one of my alt toons.

Five minutes and its another fleet that will do NOTHING.

Making it harder to create fleets will encourage players to join existing fleets which in turn will increase fleet productivity.
I have my own fleet, I am the only member, and I two wouldn't leave it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 77
# 79
02-14-2013, 07:01 PM
Something that I notice is how the Fleet Marks have been treated doesn't seem to be balanced or sumplimented with another item. I explain.

If you look at the PvE events and others in some way or another the seen to offer items ans have a small supplement of another item.

- Gorn Mine, Big Dig etc give a Dilithium and a Item.

- Minetrap, The Vault etc gives Romulan Marks and a small amount of Fleet Marks

- STFs gives Omega Marks and Dilithium.

Even Dereri Ground and Borg Space Invations give a supplement.

But when it comes to Tholian Ground, Colony Invastion etc they don't come with a suppliment of another item. At least the foundry is some way supplement now with EC. I personally like to have Fleet Marks more than EC, but I know, I'm not the EP.

So it might be something to look at, give somthing to supplement the Fleet Mark events, might make it more attractive to get.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,598
# 80
02-14-2013, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post

I appreciate that we don't always make good decisions. We do listen to feedback and we do adjust in order to make things better for everyone.
Then please listen to the feedback on this thread and others.

We are hurting for fleet marks NOW. Not in a couple of months. NOW.

Taking away the major source of fm for small fleets without the replacement system being in place was an utterly foolish idea.

I'm sure you just had a good month......but I wouldn't be so sanguine about next month unless you sort this out in hours or days, not months.
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