Saying small fleets should suffer by "design" is retarded. Its a dumb idea to make small fleets progress more slowly then larger fleets, simple fact is you either couldnt or wouldnt make a scaling system to be fair to all fleets. So instead of manning up to it you throw that out.
The foundry mission was FINE the way it was, small fleets are starved for dil? Well no crap you keep taking away all our sources of Dil or cutting it down to nothing then wonder why?! You want to solve the dil problem, the repeaditive grind of same content etc. Return the IOR mission to how it was and give 2k dil per turn in, 2k dil per 15-30mins is fair and we can chose to do the content we want. Everyone wins!
But honestly Cryptic doesnt want us to win anything, we are supposed to slog through grind after grind after grind in the slowest most unfun way possible for them. Romulan instances are a joke reward wise vs other content but they dont increase them either.
My fleet agreed to halt progression cause of this, IOR we did together for fun as a fleet and were moving our starbase along at a decent pace, not some uber fast we would be done in no time breakneck speed cryptic seems to think.
The minds in charge of STO are flawed in their ideas, no content in any game should take 25 people 6+ months of grinding to complete its just irrational. 2-3 months i can see, but making that same task for a fleet of 5 take longer just cause that fleet enjoys having 5 friends is BS and you know it.
When you joined/made your fleets was your plan to make some uber super fleet? Or was it to collect friends to do fun things with reguardless of size? We are watching fleet after fleet die off because they cant progress in the same content as the rest of us. Cryptic you really want all of like 10 mega fleets and nothing else? Cause thats the way this beast is rolling.
Get your heads on straight, or hire someone who can think of a clear picture and move you towards it, cause atm your doing 1 step forward 10 steps back and doing it constantly. Listen to your damn testers when they say not to push bugged broken content out, you break more then you fix every time, and you do it KNOWINGLY which is beyond idiotic. If you see a red traffic light you wouldnt drive through it knowingly i would hope, yet you guys plow right into that school bus full of kids every chance you get.
Provide some proof of you claims - I have watched this thing closely since before they launched - never - ever did they say in anything written down that it would be "proportionate" to the size of the fleet.
I'll have to do some digging, but I'm sure others saw them say that the fleet base was meant to be attainable by all, and not meant to be a burden on smaller fleets. Proportionate may not have been the wording used, but it was certainly made clear that they were initially designing it to be just as attainable for a small fleet (albeit a bit longer) than it is for these huge mega-fleets.
This is a terrible decision, it doesn't make sense, and if some random user can come up with a great formula for fleet advancement, why can't these "developers" that get paid a good chunk of cash to think of these things?
Captain Jason A. Kendall U.S.S. Indianapolis NCC-94668 90th Special Operations Task Force
Then get and organise more fleet missons whats stopping you. As for people quitting because an exploit has been closed. Cutting nose off to spite face springs to mind.
IOR, next toon, IOR, next toon, IOR, next toon.... repeat XXX times every 30 mins.
All that dill to buy all those things and they still stand in one place... IOR, IOR, IOR...
There are only so many things in game, actually less that offer fleet marks. As you only quoted a partial statement to what I originally said... having the ability to play missions that were not the same thing over and over again was nice, we did this as a fleet and at the same time were given fleet marks which helped our but small fleet.
Now..... to get fleet marks, yes we can still do foundry missions but to get rewarded with FLEET MARKS, we need to stick to fleet actions, do you understand now.. that means we can only do these to get FLEET MARKS, so basically they are forcing something onto us that FOR US, in unjoyable.... before at least we had the option of picking different missions each day to do our daily with, and yes some did the occasional fleet action to get more marks...
What they should do as someone mentioned which is a great idea is to allow a group of 3-5 to team up and be able to do the foundry daily and get the fleet marks. Least we would have the option to still enjoy something without the need to be doing a set things over and over...
If there going to force people to do set things then bring in open pvp..
It's my belief that they are trying to kill the game so they can focus on Never Winter, and if thats the case I say they are doing a great job.
Maybe it wouldn't be bad thing. At least a new company might be American and make a less grindy MMO using the Star Trek franchise. I'm sure with all the new Trek coming out this year some other companies would jump at the chance to do it.
Scaling system isn't fair to large fleets, might as well kick everyone and make it easier if they did that. It doesn't give fleets any incentive to grow. Its never going to happen so people sotp bringing it up. Just be glad higher starbase tiers are even available to smaller fleet and don't require more members to unlock.
The current fleet holding system is fair, and I agree with the changes to investigate officer reports and removing exploits.
That said I wouldn't mind seeing more Fleet events, including some that are pvp.
Option A was that Fleet size would determine the maximum tier for Fleet Holdings. The larger the Fleet, the higher the Fleet Holding Tiers could achieve. This is how many other MMOs gate Guild progression, but we felt that it is artificially limiting to the many active small Fleets in STO.
Option B was to allow Fleets of any size to achieve all tiers of Fleet Holdings. The drawback is that because Fleet sizes range so much, we had to find a balance so that Large Fleets had some challenge, while still allowing small Fleets to achieve all tiers, albeit at a much slower pace. If you are in a Fleet less than 25 players, then it is expected to be more challenging than the norm.
I've suggested it before and recognize it would require tech that did not exist when starbases were added but I prefer what I'd call Option C or the WoW option.
That is to say: I think fleet level/base/holding progression should be tuned to be moderately easy for a fleet of around 20 players but such that characters have a higher personal investment to access fleet rewards.
The way certain other games handle this is by having a Fleet/Guild reputation. It is relatively easy (not trivial but doable easily in under a year) for a fleet to progress its rewards. This may require a fleet to engage in diverse playstyles but is fairly quick.
However, a fleet unlocking access to rewards does not translate into any PLAYER or CHARACTER unlocking access to rewards and the player must somehow champion the fleet/guild or participate in group content with fleetmates to gain personal access to what the fleet has unlocked.
In this version, almost all fleets might reach T5 Starbase in under six months but personally gaining access to fleet rewards would require participation in the actual fleet. (One option here could be a Fleet Reputations which actually consumes Lifetime Fleet Reputation. thus, progress in a Fleet rep is based on fleet loyalty.)
Originally Posted by dastahl
1. Fleets under 25 are going to have a hard time completing projects = by design.
Wasn't 25 considered a large fleet prior to starbases being added? I think what confuses some is that devs once seemed to indicate that 25+ was the threshold for a "large" fleet whereas the new design seems to suggest that 25 is no longer considered large. This is a shame because I know many people who splintered off with the intent of being active in multiple fleets on multiple alts, hoping that 25 would be considered "large" in the design... and therefore seeking to maximize diversity and presence of theme fleets by deliberately not having more than 25 in a fleet, even when two fleets had mostly the same players behind the keyboard. The idea being to maintain and participate in multiple themed fleets.
I know Caspian has multiple Fed Fleets partly under this expectation and that some of our podcasters advocated AGAINST having more than 25 characters in a fleet to maximize the diversity of fleets in game.
For example: Thirty players assumed that since they were a large fleet, they would max a starbase in 7 months. So they positioned alts in seperate fleets designated for PvP, STFs, roleplay. I sense a lot of buyer's remorse now that 30 is no longer considered large and frustration from players who feel penalized for parking and designating alts as a PvP alt in a labeled PvP Fleet, a Roleplay alt in a Roleplay fleet, etc.
The design seems to discourage fleet s from forming around single game mechanics or gameplay styles, which is traditionally a staple of MMO guild organization. It isn't that the players had no desire to participate in all facets of the game. It's that they wanted designated alts and fleets each directed at a single gameplay approach each.
Ie. My PvP alt does nothing but PvP and is in a fleet that does nothing but PvP. My roleplay alt is in a roleplay fleet where the fleet only organizes for roleplay and nothing else.
I realize a lot has changed but I feel STO has moved from an alt friendly game to penalizing people for alts -- particularly single purpose alts -- and single purpose fleets.