Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,046
# 11
02-15-2013, 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
Yeah, the S word in generations is about the worst it got. Personally, a fun writing challenge is to see how you can get around swearing.
The S word here was totally justified. I mean... Have you seen Troi's driving...? First time at the conn, and she hits a planet.
I love nice long walks in the country.
Especially if they're taken by people who annoy me!
Ar ais olc leis an doer olc
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,987
# 12
02-15-2013, 01:53 AM
Battlestar Gallactica gave us the wonderful word 'frak'...
In the original series, it was hard to gauge precisely what it meant, as it was normally only used as a general curse, so could have meant 'damn' (although the sound should've been a clue...) In Nu BG, the usage became a lot more specific, and I heard someone referred to as a 'motherfrakker"...

Frak frakkity frak frak frak...

I'll have characters swear if it's in context, but never just for the sake of it. As for keeping it PG13... Why? The majority of Trek fans are going to be quite old enough to have their own PG13 viewers, so why bother? IMHO Self-censorship is the sign of a timid writer... Equally, being unnecessarily sensationalist is also the sgn of a weak writer... I saw write what you want, but keep it within context, and you shouldn't have any complaints from your readership
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,724
# 13
02-15-2013, 02:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildthyme467989 View Post
You forget Miles O'Brien in the DS9 Ep Time's Orphan, he used a certain 8 letter B word that is unrepeatable here
That had me in stitches . I wonder how they got it past censors, is it not used in the US?

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JJ. Trek is just as canon and awesome as all other Trek, Get over it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,055
# 14
02-15-2013, 03:37 AM
The canon, in this regard, deals not only with the characters themselves, but what the writers were able to get away with and what the censors allowed.

I would say that if you keep that in mind, unless the much more "perfect" humans of the Federation eschewed such expressions entirely (I very much doubt that), you can use whatever you want. That said, I think it would take Picard quite a bit to start swearing in earnest, though he's used a foul word or two in his day.

Commanders in particular seem like they would tend to have sufficient practiced eloquence to restrain their speech in most cases.

A grizzled combat vet, on the other hand, would probably use whatever they felt like assuming a disapproving commander wasn't nearby to hear it - and maybe even if they were if they were under fire.

That said, don't forget to toss in some alien foul language. I'm sure most races have been creative in this regard!
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
# 15
02-15-2013, 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
I'll have characters swear if it's in context, but never just for the sake of it. As for keeping it PG13... Why? The majority of Trek fans are going to be quite old enough to have their own PG13 viewers, so why bother? IMHO Self-censorship is the sign of a timid writer... Equally, being unnecessarily sensationalist is also the sgn of a weak writer... I saw write what you want, but keep it within context, and you shouldn't have any complaints from your readership
I keep it to about PG-13 more because that's just the way the characters take it. I do very little, if any planning before I write a story and it just happens to end up around the area of PG-13. Not to say I haven't crossed that line, but I want to make it accessible to any trek fan, from new ones (who may or may not fit into the above PG-13 or above bracket) to the die hard fans. So if that means I'm a weak or timid writer, then ok.

As for readership... I have no idea how much of a reader base I have. No one ever comments if they do, and that is with the stories posted to LiveJournal, Tumblr, and DeviantArt. I even have a Formspring account for my captain. A link to the LJ one used to be in my sig...but that was before PWE took the helm, so I have no idea if it's still there.

No idea if this has sparked any interest in the stories themselves, but here goes the shameless plug:

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DeviantArt

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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 16
02-15-2013, 06:54 AM
These are the ******* voyages of the ******-******* Enterprise. It's ******* five year mission, to ******* search out new ******* life and civilisations. To boldly ******* go where no ******-******* gone before.

How's this.

Last edited by psymantis; 02-15-2013 at 07:07 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 62
# 17
02-15-2013, 07:41 AM
There was good advice here, but wanted to throw in some of my own if that is okay.

People fail to realize that most of your greatest literary artists seldom, and some never, used profanity. Tolkien comes to mind. LOTR did not have ONE cuss word in it, and even as a movie scored major at the box offices. Star Trek may have some examples of cussing, but it has always been by far considered clean and family friendly.

I enjoy writing, and I like to make sure anyone can read my stories and not be offended by the content, and yet can be entertained. It is a challenge at times, when you are writing about a very gruff person that probably in real life would cuss up a storm. It is however possible to relate that without writing it.

"Horden the Lip let out such curses that even Steel was taken aback"

On the other hand, if you come to a point such as:

The captain lowered his head as his friend's vessel exploded on the screen.
"Were you able to get him, Commander," he asked, but he knew the answer even before the commander shook his head.
"Damn."


If you feel it needs to be written out, make it mean something to the plot, not just because the character uses the word.

Luke told the waiter to get out of his room, and to put the tray of offending food in a place that the waiter was sure it could not fit.
Another way to do it. Leaves it open to the person's own mind. That could mean in his ear, or other places.

Just advice, along with others. Hope it helps to enrich your stories, and broaden your descriptions.
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"Maybe space is not the final frontier," - Luke Minhere
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,430
# 18
02-15-2013, 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldkirkfan View Post
The S word here was totally justified. I mean... Have you seen Troi's driving...? First time at the conn, and she hits a planet.
First time at the conn and she still manages a successful hard landing... saving everyone in the saucer, including Spot. I remember one time I peered over a friend's shoulder at a flightsim he was playing. He let me take over the landing. Everyone died as my plane nosedived vertically into the runway. So give Troi some credit...

... wait what am I saying... YOU LET TROI PILOT THE SHIP? WTF RIKER? GEORDI COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB WITHOUT HIS VISOR!
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,987
# 19
02-15-2013, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverjdgmntdrgn View Post
I keep it to about PG-13 more because that's just the way the characters take it. I do very little, if any planning before I write a story and it just happens to end up around the area of PG-13. Not to say I haven't crossed that line, but I want to make it accessible to any trek fan, from new ones (who may or may not fit into the above PG-13 or above bracket) to the die hard fans. So if that means I'm a weak or timid writer, then ok.
I'd meant my comments more as rhetorical, not as a personal attack, so sorry if that tone wasn't conveyed by the text. I don't think there's anything wrong with crossing the line, but I think deliberately not doing so, is rather weak, as good writing stands on its own merits beyond mere politeness

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverjdgmntdrgn View Post
As for readership... I have no idea how much of a reader base I have. No one ever comments if they do,
I know exactly what you mean. I don't write for kudos or praise, I write for the pleasure of writing, but it is frustrating when no one can take the time to give commentary or critique, as without it, it is impossible to gauge how well received work is, or what I need to do to develop as a writer

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeminherexx View Post
There was good advice here, but wanted to throw in some of my own if that is okay.

People fail to realize that most of your greatest literary artists seldom, and some never, used profanity. Tolkien comes to mind. LOTR did not have ONE cuss word in it, and even as a movie scored major at the box offices. Star Trek may have some examples of cussing, but it has always been by far considered clean and family friendly.

I enjoy writing, and I like to make sure anyone can read my stories and not be offended by the content, and yet can be entertained. It is a challenge at times, when you are writing about a very gruff person that probably in real life would cuss up a storm. It is however possible to relate that without writing it.
Likewise, I don't necessarily write to be offensive, although I do strive to be challenging in my writing: to make people think and question opinions and viewpoints on subjects. However, with regards greatest literary artists and profanity, I would have to mention the works of Shakespeare... Considered to be sophisticated, and Serious Business in terms of performance, but, in his day, Shakespeare would have held the kind of position which Tarantino had back in the 90s, and would have been considered every bit as rude as Tarantino's movies...
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,422
# 20
02-15-2013, 08:49 AM
I think one of the best things I've heard about fiction is this: "Fiction is creating realistic characters, putting them in unrealistic situations, and seeing how they would react realistically."

Wish I could remember who said that.

In any case, what I would take from it is this. Think about who your characters are and what situation they're in. If it feels right that they would swear, have them swear. If not, then don't. But I wouldn't worry about what's come before.
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