Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,326
# 601
02-15-2013, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Cryptic please don't listen to all these complainers. Of course all the people that are against it are going to be complaining the loudest and most on forums, but fact is most players aren't complaining here and don't really have a problem with these changes.

Both my Fed and KDF fleets are close to 500 members and most are not active on the forums, and from what I have seen of other Fleets this size it is similar with them.
From what I hear from everyone on Fleet chat and teamspeak none of them are complaining or care I assume this is similar with many other fleets. The mostly silient majority does not mind these changes and are ok with it, don't let the loud angry minority bully you into giving them their exploits back. These changes were the right thing to do for the foundry and for the Fleet Event system (maybe we will actually get the queues active again outside of events)
Good grief.

So, yet another 'I'm alright, Jack'

Yes, big fleets are not that affected by this ill-considered change. Small fleets are punitively affected.

And there's a huge logical fallacy in your remarks.

a big fleet has more members than a small fleet, given.......but how many big fleets are there compared to small fleets?

I would bet a considerable sum on there being a lot more......really, really a lot more.

If we compared the number of people in big fleets against the number of people in small fleets, overall, then big fleets would be the minority of players. Just because you're concentrated in one fleet doesn't make you a majority of players.

Consider this thread, the overwhelming number of responses are antipathetic to this change. The vast, overwhelming majority.

Virtually the only ones who don't see the problem are members of the sort of mega fleet you're a part of.

Even then, some posters who are members of big fleets do see the problem. they don't merely look at this as something that affects them directly, instead they realise that this change is affecting the majority of the player base. They have some empathy and understanding of the game as a whole, not just their little corner of it.

We may be small, and small fleets by themselves don't matter much.

However, when there are a lot of them it is (in Janeways words) like being pecked to death by chickens......

.....and the thing about being pecked to death by chickens is that you're still dead.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 623
# 602
02-15-2013, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
The thing is you people in small Fleets all want your contributions to count for more towards fleet holding progression then mine does. I don't see that as fair to me or others in my fleet. I work just as hard for my dil and FM and it should be worth the same amount as anyone elses regardless of fleet size. If it doesn't work this way I am penalized in that my individual contributions are worth less towards completing a project then yours would be.

No MMO works that way, some in fact even penalize guilds for not growing through maintenance fees that don't scale for smaller guilds, and also by restricting certain guild holdings until they reach a certain size. MMO means massivley multiplayer, that means you need lots of players, it doesn't mean micro multiplayer where you can stay in 5 man fleet and get everything handed to you.

Another assumptions on your part. I'm not in a small fleet. My fleet has 100+ people from all over the world. Some of the larger fleets are affected by this as well.

And I can see you have ignored pretty much the main part of my post, choice. I had a choice before. Now, I must grind because.
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 699
# 603
02-15-2013, 10:12 AM
I see a lot of assumptions here. Just because a fleet has 500 members doesn't mean that you have enough active/avail players to do a Fleet Event. Same can be said for donations, not everyone is gonna donate nor can you expect each person to donate a certain amount.

The doff grinder is something that really should be addressed as well as FM. It takes about 400 doffs to set each project to gain 1000 xp in each category. How is this feasible when you initially only get 20 doffs? You're forcing fleets to 'exploit' the exchange to make up the difference or just not advance in the system.

Reputation System is nothing but a clicky, no gameplay..just clicks but, that's ok? IOR wasn't and it has gameplay from 15 min - 4 hours long. You're rewarding players for clicks, regardless, it's a game and you have to click to shoot!

Another thing is now with Foundry you now reward some mysterious amount of Dil and EC based on the amount of time it takes to finish. Shouldn't the faster, more skilled player get more than someone who takes longer? Might this encourage afk in foundry?

We'll have to use the Mission Review Comments to post what rewards and how much since the hail no longer tells us.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 310
# 604
02-15-2013, 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
The fleets I am in have been restriciting alts and are constantly booting inactive people to make room for more new people due to always being at the 500 man limit and wanting let new people share in having a developed starbase. Some people have an alt or 2 but most don't keep them in the Fleet to keep room open, we have to use custom chat channels and voice servers a lot because so many people are in the fleet but often not in the fleet on the character they are currently playing.
And? This is still not the norm for a lot of fleets.

Just because that is the rules your fleet does, doesn't mean every other "large" fleet does the same.

Still not sure where your coming from and what your "real" thoughts are.

So far it seem your own"metrics" are based solely on your own fleet and that is what you are portraying as facts.
From the man himself - "And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre"

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes, don't look around my eyes, look into my eyes, you're under..."Grind is good".
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,159
# 605
02-15-2013, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solomace View Post
??? Eh?

I thought this thread was about removing the marks that effect everyone, big fleets and little?

What have I missed?
I was replying to a post saying it was mostly us from large fleets that don't mind the changes and it wasn't a large vs small fleet thing, and I pointed out that many of them have been asking for scaling down contribution requirements for small fleets in this thread and others and how Ithink its unfair.

And no removing FM for IOR does not hurt my fleet at all, nobody is complaining. We actually do stuff together as a fleet like 20 man Starbase defense and earn lots of fleet marks all the time. We spend more time complaining about not being able to all donate our marks then lack of marks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 161
# 606
02-15-2013, 10:14 AM
Ok, let's try some constructive feedback.

The main problem with the removal of fleet marks in officer reports is that it was by far the most convenient way of earning them. Once you got a taste of something far better and efficient, you don't want to miss it.
At the same time this also means that pretty much all other ways were lackluster and overly grind'ish.
If Fleet Marks rewards for fleet actions were increased by 50% or so, there would've been at least a small compensation for the removal of the officer reports.

You know, if you're going to take something away, you should offer something in return, to appease your customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Fleet Marks will becoming common rewards for "Group Queued Gameplay" whereas Dilithium will be focused on more solo Mission Gameplay.
Could this mean that the Dilithium reward in STFs might be replaced by fleet marks? I'm asking specifically about STFs because they're a major source of Dilithium and would fall into "Group Queued Gameplay".
However I think even if that was the case a small amount of Dil. should be kept. Like 480 Dil. instead of 960.
To encourage grouped fleet activites (the opposite of officer reports), there could be a Fleet Mark bonus for a complete fleet-only team.
I guess I could live with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
We appreciate that there is frustration about losing the Fleet Marks in the Foundry, but Fleet Marks were never intended for solo based gameplay.
Ok, if they were never intended for solo based gameplay, why were they put there (in the officer reports) in the first place?
This doesn't sounds very plausible. It seems more like you formulated this 'concept' just recently in the search for a working system. Or maybe there's another explanation. But I'm pretty sure it didn't happen by accident.

Last edited by arcjet; 02-15-2013 at 10:25 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 310
# 607
02-15-2013, 10:16 AM
Isn't it entirely possible that the change is because "Large" fleets are using this method to get marks easy, hence why some are getting to the top tier faster than Cryptic would like?

This change effects large and small fleets. Not sure why some don't get this.

Either way, let them. Large or small. It's still sounds like a boring grind to me, so if they want to do it, let them.
From the man himself - "And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre"

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes, don't look around my eyes, look into my eyes, you're under..."Grind is good".
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 210
# 608
02-15-2013, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
I was replying to a post saying it was mostly us from large fleets that don't mind the changes and it wasn't a large vs small fleet thing, and I pointed out that many of them have been asking for scaling down contribution requirements for small fleets in this thread and others and how Ithink its unfair.
How is that unfair? Should the players in smaller fleets get less rewards for their work? Because currently they do, you keep ignoring the fact that members of small fleets have to do *more* for the same rewards. Ergo, the return on investment is far worse then in larger fleets, scaling down so the return on investment would be the same vs. larger fleets would *not* be unfair to you, it would be fair for those in smaller fleets...
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 310
# 609
02-15-2013, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
I was replying to a post saying it was mostly us from large fleets that don't mind the changes and it wasn't a large vs small fleet thing, and I pointed out that many of them have been asking for scaling down contribution requirements for small fleets in this thread and others and how Ithink its unfair.

And no removing FM for IOR does not hurt my fleet at all, nobody is complaining. We actually do stuff together as a fleet like 20 man Starbase defense and earn lots of fleet marks all the time. We spend more time complaining about not being able to all donate our marks then lack of marks.
So how many in your fleet? Have you managed to get feedback from all of them? I take it "everyone" in your fleet is happy with this as you say?

Must be a very active, every player comes on and plays all the time since the removal yesterday type of fleet for you to know that "everyone" in your fleet is happy with the changes.
From the man himself - "And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre"

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes, don't look around my eyes, look into my eyes, you're under..."Grind is good".
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,159
# 610
02-15-2013, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordagamemnonb5 View Post
Another assumptions on your part. I'm not in a small fleet. My fleet has 100+ people from all over the world. Some of the larger fleets are affected by this as well.

And I can see you have ignored pretty much the main part of my post, choice. I had a choice before. Now, I must grind because.
Well I do agree we need more choices, I pointed out in earlier posts that get buried under the see of complaints that we do need more Fleet events. However I also agree with what the dev said that FM should be awarded for group content only, not something soloable like IOR.

What we need is a few more Fleet mark events for both space and ground, and also pvp versions of the existing ones with more marks to winner as to discourage people from AFKing.

Also FM should be added to the Fleet actions as well.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:31 PM.