Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 318
# 21
02-15-2013, 08:55 AM
I always thought that Starfleet, especially, would tend to be a bit rather eloquent and specific in how they insult or curse. Our coarse 21st century cusses would be rather too generalized and lame. Here are some examples:

"You, sir, have an acted-upon Oedipal complex."

"I have compiled a list of possible candidates for you to engage in recreational pseudo-copulation with."
"I'm the only person on this list."
"Indeed."

"Janeway can be a rather self-important and caustic shrew, wouldn't you agree?"
"Quite."

"Go eat a Richard, my good man."

"Crewman Yates reminds me an incident I saw on Risa. A transport skiff carrying exotic Denobulan vinegar hit a bit of turbulence and one of the barrels fell out of the back. It landed square in the middle of a small wading pool of fresh water. The barrel pretty much just exploded and the sound it made...wow."
"Oh, was it a giant d-"
"Just so!"

You get the idea, surely.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 62
# 22
02-15-2013, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
However, with regards greatest literary artists and profanity, I would have to mention the works of Shakespeare... Considered to be sophisticated, and Serious Business in terms of performance, but, in his day, Shakespeare would have held the kind of position which Tarantino had back in the 90s, and would have been considered every bit as rude as Tarantino's movies...
Agreed, but look how Shakespear did it. He used masterful wording to get the point across instead of having to resort to the one shot shocker, that really doesn't shock anymore.

I am no hypocrite, Desperation, The Regulators, The Dark Tower trilogy....all good books, and Steven King did not exactly watch his language. LOL
However, he also was not writing on an open forum. There are ways of getting around cussing, without losing the feel of the character, if that is who the character is. There are ways of making a character a "player" without ever introducing one sex scene. Literary challenges like those are what really gets a novice writer to challenge themselves, and usually make a better literary work. Just my opinion. Not intended to be an argument even to your quote above, as I can actually agree with you as well.
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"Maybe space is not the final frontier," - Luke Minhere
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,209
# 23
02-15-2013, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeminherexx View Post
Agreed, but look how Shakespear did it. He used masterful wording to get the point across instead of having to resort to the one shot shocker, that really doesn't shock anymore.
When written, it would have been shocking. As shocking as Tarantino's use of the F and N words are to contemporary viewers. The fact that the tolerances and values of the audience have changed, does not detract from Shakespeare's work as a Hardcore Author, rather than some Romantic Poet

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeminherexx View Post
I am no hypocrite, Desperation, The Regulators, The Dark Tower trilogy....all good books, and Steven King did not exactly watch his language. LOL
However, he also was not writing on an open forum. There are ways of getting around cussing, without losing the feel of the character, if that is who the character is. There are ways of making a character a "player" without ever introducing one sex scene. Literary challenges like those are what really gets a novice writer to challenge themselves, and usually make a better literary work. Just my opinion. Not intended to be an argument even to your quote above, as I can actually agree with you as well.
Absolutely, I quite agree with you. I don't think there is necessarily a need to have a character swearing unnecessarily, especially when Star Trek was always written a certain way, but equally, I think that to adhere too strictly to that format, can become an unnecessary restriction. I think that the only way to put it, is that it's all about context: Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes it's not...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,160
# 24
02-15-2013, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeminherexx View Post
Agreed, but look how Shakespear did it. He used masterful wording to get the point across instead of having to resort to the one shot shocker, that really doesn't shock anymore.
Bingo. Profanity is the refuge of the inarticulate.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,150
# 25
02-15-2013, 12:17 PM
It seems to me, that profanity in the ST era isn't as rampant as it is now...

The Voyage Home:

Spock: Your use of language has altered since our arrival. It is currently laced with, shall we say, more colorful metaphors, "double dumbass on you" and so forth.
Kirk: Oh, you mean the profanity?
Spock: Yes.
Kirk: Well that's simply the way they talk here. Nobody pays any attention to you unless you swear every other word.

Spock: They like you very much, but they are not the hell "your" whales.
Dr. Gillian Taylor: I suppose they told you that.
Spock: The hell they did.
I love nice long walks in the country.
Especially if they're taken by people who annoy me!
Ar ais olc leis an doer olc
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
# 26
02-15-2013, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeminherexx View Post
Luke told the waiter to get out of his room, and to put the tray of offending food in a place that the waiter was sure it could not fit.
Actually, this is pretty much the way I have the captain swear up a storm, one of such tirade aimed at Franklin Drake. I forget the name of the mission I based the story on, but it's the one where it turns out to be a holodeck simulation set up by Drake. (As a side note: Myself and two other friends have a sort of combines head-canon, which combines our three ships and crews in-universe and takes major ques from the game but does not follow it to the letter, and none of us like Franklin Drake. Nothing against him in general, but he has pulled several **** moves in the missions involving him.)

Oddly enough, sex and the like has been rather low on the totem pole as it were in regards to my characters, even though the only male characters (at least in major roles) are the captain and the Chief Engineer. There are more minor characters that are recurring, but not senior officers, that are male. The rest (Science Officer, First Officer, Security Chief, CMO) are all female. This is compounded by the fact I have (and don't ask me for a reason why, part of it is a long story, the other is it just happened) the Chief Engineer, who is Bajoran, and the First Officer, who is Andorian (this is the one that's a long story) in a relationship. One would think "bow chicka wow wow" moments would happen more frequently in a set up like that.

Especially with a captain whose nickname is "Long John"...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,371
# 27
02-15-2013, 12:51 PM
Don't forget about Picard using "merde".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 106
# 28
02-15-2013, 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstocbr View Post
Also quite acceptable is ... "Double dumb-ass on you"
Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?

The shows are restricted by broadcast standards, but I think it feels about right for Starfleet officers. These are very erudite characters with an education that'd make present-day Oxford look like kindergarten, living in an idealistic society with no concept of poverty or crime. Even if the shows were on a premium channel, I wouldn't expect most of them to swear any more than they already do: their language seems tame by our standards, but their whole culture is much tamer than ours, so it makes sense. If a Trek story deals with another layer of Federation society, though, like mercenaries or colonists, they might drop a lot more bombs. Still, if you want the story to sound Trekkish, I'd suggest swapping anything stronger than hell or damn with Klingon. I'm not sure what "go screw yourself" is in Klingon, but I'll bet it gets the point across.

Edit: Apparently it's "jaH ngagh tlhej SoH'egh." That could come in handy sometime...

Last edited by sparklysoldier; 02-15-2013 at 02:36 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 62
# 29
02-15-2013, 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverjdgmntdrgn View Post
Actually, this is pretty much the way I have the captain swear up a storm, one of such tirade aimed at Franklin Drake. I forget the name of the mission I based the story on, but it's the one where it turns out to be a holodeck simulation set up by Drake. (As a side note: Myself and two other friends have a sort of combines head-canon, which combines our three ships and crews in-universe and takes major ques from the game but does not follow it to the letter, and none of us like Franklin Drake. Nothing against him in general, but he has pulled several **** moves in the missions involving him.)
Well there you go. In fact, Drake is an antagonist of my current story with Luke, and the reason he is going "rogue". I tend to not involve canon characters directly, or if I do, not very deep in the story (personal thing for me, not against it. They put them out there, I think people should be able to use them), so it's his representatives that Luke will deal with, so that Drake in the end could always say he had nothing to do with it.

Drake does seem like a character that many characters would love to let loose some colorful words on. lol
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"Maybe space is not the final frontier," - Luke Minhere
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,060
# 30
02-15-2013, 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
Bingo. Profanity is the refuge of the inarticulate.
My grandfather was a tough guy. During WWII he was a Navy SEABEE, building airfields and things all over the Pacific. After the war he was ironworker, responsible for building - among other things - much of Disneyland and the Vincent Thomas Bridge that spans Long Beach Harbor.

He always told me "Folks only swear 'cuz their too stupid to think of anything else to say."

Coincidentally, here's a list of Klingon swear words and approximate English equivelents:

baQa' - crap, or s---
ghuy' - damn
ghuy'cha - a stronger version of the above
Hu'tegh - strong ivective with no direct English equivelent; usually precedes and intensifies the word petaQ
jay' - sentence modifier placed at the end, similar to inserting "the hell" or "the f---" into a question. The intensity is somewhere between these two. Example: qaStaH nuq (what's going on) becomes qaStaH nuq jay' (what the ---- is going on)
petaQ - most commonly-used Klingon insult, similar to b------ or a------
Qovpatlh - uworthy or insignificant person
Qu'vatlh - literally "a hundred tasks"; an expression of frustration
QI'yaH - one of the strongest expletives in the Klingon language with no direct English equivelent (it would take a combination of several words, none of which are printable, to express this in English.)
toDSaH - wimp or wuss
yIntagh - idiot or moron


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