Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 275
# 1 Ground PvP Battle ground!
02-11-2013, 03:47 AM
I heard talk of introducing battle grounds into pvp which made me think back to the battlegrounds of wow. It would be so easy to do and it would encourage pvp if there was some large scale pvp map that was only available at certain times as the Defera invasion once was. You would build it like a war zone but make the spawn inaccessable to the opposing faction by placing invincible , highly leathal turrets or placing it too high to reach, or both. You could place PVE objectives deep within enemy territory to gain points and it could work similar to an assault match.
Also, it might be more practical to make the map more long than wide to encourage players to take a particular path or two and ensure the players can't really avoid each other. To stop leechers from ruining the matches have a minimum or no reward for those who do below a certain amount of damage.
On each end of the map could be the respective factions base, followed by a trench style area, and maybe a city like area in the center or a crashed alien ship to battle for control of.
What if there where dilithium mines in the game that we had to pvp for control of? I have so longed for territory control in this game and it would not ba hard to make.
What are the future plans for pvp in this game?
Don't reply with QQ. Pvp isn't as broken as you think. The game is just very easy and people are shell shocked when all of a sudden the half-baked tactics that got them to Admiral stop working. I was a raid tank on wow for 5 years. I know how to research and adapt. Maybe some of you could use the time you QQ all over the forum to do the same.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 744
# 2
02-11-2013, 10:15 AM
Grand ideas, people have been asking for more PvP maps and territory control since the game began.

No one QQs about asking for more maps and territory control.
Join Date: July 29 2008
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 3
02-11-2013, 04:54 PM
It could be awesome
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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 289
# 4
02-11-2013, 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by akurie666 View Post
I heard talk of introducing battle grounds into pvp which made me think back to the battlegrounds of wow. It would be so easy to do and it would encourage pvp if there was some large scale pvp map that was only available at certain times as the Defera invasion once was.
WoW's open world PVP died for the most part when BGs were introduced. Blizz turned conflict and combat into an e-sport and gear carrot.

STO's PVP is clearly modelled on the BG already. Small scale maps and instanced. Very much an e-sport. Just more of the same bland ADD focused gameplay and no way adds to the promotion of conflict or it's resolution.

Now if you proposed to bring open world PVP to STO which many of us PVPers are asking for, then we could all agree.

Too bad it wasn't all "Play to crush!" in here but I doubt many could handle losing their fleet starbases let alone items in their inventory. Not to mention gear damage and loss.

For STO, I set my expectations to low and would be happy to see a move towards more open world PVP and leave the instancing for PVE.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,312
# 5
02-11-2013, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user839020189287 View Post
WoW's open world PVP died for the most part when BGs were introduced. Blizz turned conflict and combat into an e-sport and gear carrot.
That's not quite how it happened. Even after the introduction of BGs, there was still the 24/7 TM/SS fun to be had while waiting on the queues for those BGs. AV could be a 4+ hour long queue. AV itself, back then, could run three or more days before completing.

Battlegroups and cross-server BGs started to kill off WPvP. Group mergers and the eventual removal helped - Arenas helped - additional BGs helped, etc, etc, etc... but BGs themselves when introduced didn't.

There's no WPvP to kill off in STO. The addition of additional pseudo WPvP BGs could be nifty...definitely adding to the game. Heck, throw in a third faction and you've got GW flavor WPvP.

Yes, somewhere down the line - SB/AO/EVE WPvP with territory control would be extremely nifty... we're not there yet - and - additional BG options would not prevent that from happening.

I think the issue you're actually against would more likely be found in how PvP Rep may end up working...where it would actually be more Arenas and PvP being an e-sport in that area... as is, it's somewhat there without the pollution aspects of a tiered rep system messing up the rest...
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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 289
# 6
02-11-2013, 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
That's not quite how it happened. Even after the introduction of BGs, there was still the 24/7 TM/SS fun to be had while waiting on the queues for those BGs. AV could be a 4+ hour long queue. AV itself, back then, could run three or more days before completing.

Battlegroups and cross-server BGs started to kill off WPvP. Group mergers and the eventual removal helped - Arenas helped - additional BGs helped, etc, etc, etc... but BGs themselves when introduced didn't.

There's no WPvP to kill off in STO. The addition of additional pseudo WPvP BGs could be nifty...definitely adding to the game. Heck, throw in a third faction and you've got GW flavor WPvP.

Yes, somewhere down the line - SB/AO/EVE WPvP with territory control would be extremely nifty... we're not there yet - and - additional BG options would not prevent that from happening.

I think the issue you're actually against would more likely be found in how PvP Rep may end up working...where it would actually be more Arenas and PvP being an e-sport in that area... as is, it's somewhat there without the pollution aspects of a tiered rep system messing up the rest...
I remember back in vanilla WoW roaming the countryside looking for an enemy to kill. Most of the PVPers I used to come up across were too busy queuing up in their capitals and never ventured out. BGs aka instancing killed open world PVP with time. I just quit not long after the BGs got put in because I saw the writing on the wall and did not want to set my self up for more disappointment.

The reason there's no open world PVP in STO is because the devs either have no real experience with PVP or they just feel it's a tack-on feature and not as important aka does not generate enough cash. Not to mention the game's design is so small scale and instanced- heavy does not help.

For whatever reasons, PVP in STO is pretty stale and nothing more than an e-sport. All a rep system is going to do is make PVP the "carrot" for gear rewards. Faction loyalty and a means of conflict resolution is what drove PVP in older MMOs, not carrots, and I feel we could use more of the old and less of the new.

If PVP was properly considered and implemented from the start of the game's development might have been a lot better for those who like to kill real people instead of AI.

Too late, I feel. Was trying to stick around until after the May update when DStahl said PVP changes were coming... but feel there's a big Rommie-based heart break coming and whatever hope I have for PVP will be quashed. So it is said, I do not see a proper third faction inbound nor was wishing to be a Rommie. KDF for life... or until I embrace new lore in the next game I play.

A rep system would make more sense with open world PVP as you could be attacked by those who are conning red to you based on said rep. Again, this should have been in at the start. Old games had rep but guess most devs don't look past WoW, tbh.

Thanks for responding though and for agreeing what could be.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8

Last edited by user839020189287; 02-11-2013 at 06:53 PM.
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# 7 o.o
02-16-2013, 03:56 AM
I think the best refrence for an exellent pvp battleground would be World of Warcrafts Alterac Vally. It has capturable objectives as well as pve bosses at either end. It was always my favorite map.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 460
# 8
02-16-2013, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by akurie666 View Post
I think the best refrence for an exellent pvp battleground would be World of Warcrafts Alterac Vally. It has capturable objectives as well as pve bosses at either end. It was always my favorite map.
*audible groan* PvP maps should never have PvE be the end objective. Both of WoW's "PvEvP" battlegrounds these days are used by PvE players to farm honour and conquest points (nothing wrong with that really).

In Alterac Valley, both teams form up a massive train, ride past each other on opposite ends of the battleground, then kill the end boss. The only people who get killed are the ones who defend towers or stragglers who entered the game late. In Isle of Conquest, Alliance runs straight for the docks, Horde runs straight for the tank shop, and two or three from both sides go to the hangar. It's very common to end both battlegrounds with less than 10 kills combined between both teams, but to Isle of Conquest's credit it's amazing fun when the two sides do actually smash into each other for extended periods of time.

Shanty Town represents the beginnings of good PvP/PvE mix. You have defensive turrets designed to keep spawn campers out (which they fail at spectacularly, btw) or the other team away from the mainframe. Second line defense (the first line being the players) against the enemy team is the only form of PvE content in PvP maps I've actually liked and it's the only form that's ever felt right to me.

Now, if you actually have a boss in one of these maps that, when killed, ends the game, you have to heavily, HEAVILY incentivise actual PvP. Otherwise it turns into a PvE race, with both teams avoiding each other to kill the boss, as it's the quickest way to their after-match dilithium. The only people who will die are those who get toasted by the defending NPCs/boss, or stragglers who get opened up on from cloak.
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Last edited by radkip; 02-16-2013 at 09:43 AM. Reason: slightly better spacing
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 744
# 9
02-16-2013, 11:30 AM
I think Siren's Call in CoH was a good combo of PvP and PvE. The zone was in control of heroes or villains, depending on which side had won more of the NPC battles that occurred regularly throughout the zone, and control unlocked neat things in the zone's store. But the players could completely ignore the NPCs if they wanted, because the PvP part of the zone was collecting bounties on enemy players. Everyone got a player that was their bounty, and every few moments a dot on the map would update with their location (it didn't actively follow them, it just popped up once in a while, so if they were a stalker (stealthed) and on the move, you would just see the dot moving, but not necessarily your bounty). After a certain amount of bounty collected, you could get various rewards.
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Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 275
# 10 o.o
02-16-2013, 05:50 PM
A cap-n-hold style ground map could work! Like the map could have a small city, a mine, etx! Do not use a kill counter because it is abused in assault matches. Teams who do not run the virus but intentionally run the 50 kill count out drive me crazy. In the cap-n-hold map, after the counters have ran out say the team who runs their counter our first receives a buff that will give them a slight advantage in the final phase of that match which would be assaulting the enemy base!!!
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