Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 801
# 1471
02-17-2013, 05:01 AM
I understand the logic behind not wanting to limit the progression of smaller fleets, but personally I think there is/was a much better way this could have been done.

Starbases are huge and require a lot of personnel to run/maintain so those are perfect for the larger fleets. However, a huge starbase isn't logical for smaller groups or in this case fleets. The simplest solution would be to expand the current Fleetbase system to include a "fleet outpost".

Fleet Outpost: (based off of Utopia Planitia shipyard map)

Deck 1: Transporter room, turbolift, promenade, tactical wing/communication/ops, Fleet officer offices (ready rooms and conference room, Science wing/Medical

Accesible via turbolift

Deck 2: officer quarters, holodeck, lounge/messhall

Deck 3: Engineering, Shipyard

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The tactical/ops section would be through the unused door on the left of the map and the science/medical would be through the unused door on the right of the map.

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The only special projects would be addition of fleet logo, and upgrades to the lounge/bar.

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Progression would be much the same as the larger fleet starbase but at a moderately less resource cost

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Fleets reaching a predetermined size could have the option of transferring to a fleet starbase once the fleet outpost reached max tier and would start the fleet at Starbase teir 3.

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Beyond the fleet system:

This change would also allow for the map to be used by foundry authors to create new missions based on more "functional" planetary outposts, along with cryptic made content.

This addition would also fill a void that is present in STO. All major "hub" bases have been starbases. Starbases take longer to build and require much more resources so it would only be logical that non-strategic regions or outter frontier regions would have only the smaller outposts. We did see this to some extent in the ST series.

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Development resources:

Actually creating the outpost itself wouldn't really take that much time from the development team. The main section of the outpost already exists in the Utopia Planitia Map and being that deck 2 and 3 are the same structual layout as deck 1 it would be more of a duplicate map and then just placing the assests for each deck.

Because I'm not too familiar with the programming code I can't speculate on the time needed to implement this.

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The important thing to keep in mind with this idea is that it isn't simply pandering to the smaller fleets, but that it adds a great number of possibilities not only from foundry authors but also cryptic content as well in addition to finally solving the fleetbase issues. This would also open up more opportunities/possibilities for the roleplaying portion of STO players.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 110
Some people here want to compromise; I say no.
IOR's rewarded 50 FM and 960 dilithium for 15 minutes of gameplay.
Now F-Missions reward 0 FM and 630 dilithium for 15 minutes of gamplay.

dastahl stated in his post:
Quote:
Hopefully this post helps to explain our position and why we continue to make the decisions we do. We want Fleet Progression to be a reward for Fleet Gameplay. We want players to earn more Dilithium. We want Foundry missions to have useful rewards. We want small Fleets to only be limited by group effort, not by artificial caps on progress.

We will continue to make progress towards those goals and welcome your feedback. Nothing is every "final" in MMOs, and your constructive comments are always valued.
It is not about what they want - it is about what we, the customers, want. The truth is that all they want is more money, but instead of earning it the right way - which is by creating new exciting content that we'd like and would pay for; they're just making it more difficult to obtain the existing (and rather dull) content they already created in S6.

If you wanted players to earn more dilithium and have f-missions with useful rewards; then why did you remove FM and reduce dilithium as rewards for f-missions?!?


Keep the customers happy; happy customers keep paying.
Make the customers unhappy; unhappy customers go somewhere else.

Here is what will keep us happy:
Forget the metrics that warn you that your year old additions to the game might be achieved this year by many gamers who worked diligently to obtain them; and instead concentrate on creating new missions and new content for us.

Eliminate the different marks - take the Omega/Romulan/FM and make just one mark.

Reduce the grind! Increase the fun!
Every mission, including the episodes should earn marks and dilithium. You've already created some awesome missions - which can be played by a fleet (that's what my fleet does) - if you truly want us to have more and less grind - give us marks/dilithium for completing them.


In short - give us more across the game grid.

We are your customers. We are the ones spending our money for the product you produce. We are not metrics.

Improve the product and improve your income.

57. Good customers are as rare as latinum; treasure them.
58. There is no substitute for success.
89. Ask not what your profits can do for you, but what you can do for your profits.
There are Four Lights... say no to ARC
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Fleet: 1st Order of Role-Players' Guild - gaming together since 2004

Last edited by tjexcimer500; 02-17-2013 at 05:09 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 287
# 1473
02-17-2013, 05:12 AM
I could actually get behind the idea of a universal "Mark" system vs having three different marks we have to somehow earn. Marks and dill are amazingly hard to get vs the amount I have to spend to get anywhere in the game. Hardly any new content so to me the only goal is to grind, grind,grind in hopes I can advance my fleet and get the best of the best stuff for myself in return, just to get better at PVE's.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 27
# 1474
02-17-2013, 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voicesdark View Post
I understand the logic behind not wanting to limit the progression of smaller fleets, but personally I think there is/was a much better way this could have been done.

Starbases are huge and require a lot of personnel to run/maintain so those are perfect for the larger fleets. However, a huge starbase isn't logical for smaller groups or in this case fleets. The simplest solution would be to expand the current Fleetbase system to include a "fleet outpost".
Are you referring to the aesthetics of the starbase only? or would the personal equipment/ ships and such that a small fleet could attain be likewise limited? I could see it if reducing the grandeur reduced the building costs for small fleets as you are suggesting but I can not see it if the small fleets do not get the same access to good ships and such. After all, the Enterprise was the flagship, yet worked alone mostly rather than at the head of a huge fleet of ships.
Another point is that even huge fleets have empty halls in their starbases for the most part right now... except the same number of random wandering NPCs that the small fleets have on their bases. The granduer of the current bases seems out of place on BOTH large and small fleets. How many people hang out on their base at ALL? I bet there are people who would like to have some fresh reasons to though. Like increasing the Off of the Watch FM reward.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1
# 1475
02-17-2013, 05:16 AM
I think your missing the basic point, cryptic have had to increase the amount of Dilithium Ore obtainable, due to the increase in huge amounts of things to spend it on, that said, this kind of rampant escalation will not work.

I can spend my Dil on buying zen, fleet gear, stf gear, rom gear, embassy gear, starbase projects, embassy projects. You can earn unlimited amounts of Dil ore a day, but only refine 8K, thats the problem with dil. I had been in the situation before of having 3 days worth ore in stock waiting to refine it, so I didn't bother earning any, there was no point.

for example: the current 6 projects (tier 3 SB, tier 0 Em) that need Dil require at total of 1.2M dil, which takes 125 player days to refine.

End result, by handing out more Dil ore, nothing will change: restricting fleet marks, SB & Em projects will slow up even more.

I won't be playing foundry missions any more, I don't need the "bonus" dil.

Only 8K, no way....
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 220
# 1476
02-17-2013, 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbor2 View Post
its just taken 1 and a half hours to make 50 fleet marks kdf side i like doing other stuff but its a waste of time Queing for fleet mark missions when im on KDF it takes about 15-20 mins sat doing nothing because no one wants to do a mission for 17 marks. its not worth my time if somethings not done soon i'm gone.
if it takes 15-20 mins of Queing at weekend whats it going to be like during the week 30-40 mins if i'm lucky.

COMPUTER GAMES ARE MEANT TO BE FUN NOT JUST SAT THERE HOPING OTHER PEOPLE Q FOR A MISSION WITH A LOW AMOUNT OF REWARD.

still say cryptic are fools.
I tried to do some fleet missions. I mean really tried to grind a few, but their so bad, take so long, then to see the measly payout you get for all that time and effort. As he said above, queuing on the KDF side takes a long, long time.

Their not fools, but they seem misguided in their assumption that the players are just going to roll over and be driven around our game like a kiddie rollercoaster.((I say 'our' because we're the ones dropping money in their pockets.))

So far we've been good and kept our grievances on this forum. I wonder what would happen if the rest of the interweb started hearing how a game designer was trying to hold its player base over a barrel...
Click here to see the true story of the KDF and Cryptic!

"...just look at my track record for making the improvements that I said we would with the KDF and judge by that." - Dan Stahl
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 279
# 1477
02-17-2013, 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
I posted the following earlier but it got drowned in the Bile River.
Nice. Very smooth. Way to get your point across.

Thought you were better.
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 23
# 1478
02-17-2013, 05:37 AM
my 2 cents:

i think putting back fm wouldnt change anything right now. this was just the last drop.

the real problems are laying much deeper - in my opinion they are:

- massive grinding
- very poor designed and boring repetitive missions/events
- reuse/copy-paste of (already bugged) code and selling this as something new
- nerfing of things we like(d)
- afk-leechers in stf/fleet events - and to know that cryptic knows and just ignores it
- announcing amazing, fantastic and big new content and delivering something unfinished, untestet, economy-breaking that isnt fun to play
- understanding new content as small modifications in: running around and klicking on things or flying around and firing on things (and now - brand new - running around and firing on things. i think you got the point.)
- unable to deliver fixes for game-breaking things in time

And even though i can no longer belive a single word one "special" person here is saying that maybe or maybe not
will be happen in the future (hi dan 'i know something but i wont tell' stahl - no offense) - i truly believe that with each patch constantly
breaking more things than fixing is not their intention. so something must be going badly wrong internally or - they just have
no idea what they are doing. i dont like both options.

i have really no idea what we can hope for:
that cbs pulls the plug because they have to protect their ip from further harm
or a chinese phone call saying: why u not making money?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 220
# 1479
02-17-2013, 06:14 AM
Bugs are a major problem. Especially in their highly touted Tau Dewa sector, where even the red alerts are broken.

Half the time missions don't give you the rewards their supposed to, and the rewards from the missions that happen to work are bread crumbs to the next measly payout. And stale bread crumbs at that...

There are major bugs that have been around since beta that players have incorporated into their game! How bad is it when you know you have a bug you have to plan your characters development around?

I don't think they realized the depth of a Star Trek fans dedication. Maybe they thought we were typical MMO players that just wanted to be driven around in their MMO world. This thread is the beginning of a message they need to hear. One they should have picked up on after the last debacle they tried, yanking dilithium out of STFs.

A large amount of great ideas have been put forth in this thread, but the one overriding fact is...

Cryptic, your game is fail.
Click here to see the true story of the KDF and Cryptic!

"...just look at my track record for making the improvements that I said we would with the KDF and judge by that." - Dan Stahl
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 1480
02-17-2013, 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzz0942 View Post
my 2 cents:

i think putting back fm wouldnt change anything right now. this was just the last drop.

the real problems are laying much deeper - in my opinion they are:

- massive grinding
- very poor designed and boring repetitive missions/events
- reuse/copy-paste of (already bugged) code and selling this as something new
- nerfing of things we like(d)
- afk-leechers in stf/fleet events - and to know that cryptic knows and just ignores it
- announcing amazing, fantastic and big new content and delivering something unfinished, untestet, economy-breaking that isnt fun to play
- understanding new content as small modifications in: running around and klicking on things or flying around and firing on things (and now - brand new - running around and firing on things. i think you got the point.)
- unable to deliver fixes for game-breaking things in time

And even though i can no longer belive a single word one "special" person here is saying that maybe or maybe not
will be happen in the future (hi dan 'i know something but i wont tell' stahl - no offense) - i truly believe that with each patch constantly
breaking more things than fixing is not their intention. so something must be going badly wrong internally or - they just have
no idea what they are doing. i dont like both options.

i have really no idea what we can hope for:
that cbs pulls the plug because they have to protect their ip from further harm
or a chinese phone call saying: why u not making money?
Very well put Buzz - these are among the many issues that concern me.

STO may be free-to-play but things like Fleets represent enormous amounts of investment in terms of time and/or money and the players investing their energy in creating these Fleets want STO to be around for a long time - we all do.

Cryptic's constant push to dazzle lapsed and potential players with shiny but insubstantial content is causing growing resentment amongst existing players (the ones that pay their salaries) and is constantly introducing new bugs and issues whilst old ones remain unresolved.

PWE may want to sacrifice long-term sustainability for short term profit, but as customers, that's not what *we* want - it's about time we hammered that message home.
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
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