Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,263
# 41
02-17-2013, 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
lol, i fail to see how playing a game and upgrading gear is so elitist. Also, if you havent even upgraded your galaxy to a fleet version you are a failbob anyway and anything said beyond this is a waste of my time.

also looking further through the responses of this thread it becomes crystal clear why PUG grps fail beyond the casual infected space elite. The playerbase in this game is so much anti progression and "elitist" that 80% of the players are so casual that even the simplest group interaction becomes undoable or a desaster. Starts at the choice of ships and the build for it at which most players fail completely.
The other 20% that have still half a brain and actually use it when building a ship setup, dominate the rest of the playerbase so hard that they have to call them elitists, P2W person or even cheaters to justify their incredible failing at task as simple as building a functioning and competitive ship.
It is naturally much easier to maintain a certain ignorance for changes in a game, than to adapt to new situations/content.
This brings me directly to the next point, which is the insane amount of whining of players in this game. And that is in direct connection with the playerbase being unable for the most part to build skilltrees and ships. And to actually see people that refuse to get better ships, or even deny that those ships are better, but still complain about how weak their ships are is incredible. No, insane actually.

Get a competitive ship (any 10 console ship will do) and stop braging about how much of a fanboy you are. It does not impress me.
Actually, I suspect that PUGs, at least the ones you have played in, fail because people refuse to listen to pigheaded "wannabe-Fleet Commanders" like yourself. Perhaps try to understand their point of view?

I agree, the playerbase does brand people who are doing well in this game as "cheaters" and "pouring money into the game". And they shouldn't, because each person takes a different measure of value from this game. There is no right or wrong way to enjoy this game, - it is simply up to each person, and no one should criticize others for that.

The whining is because said people aren't capable (yet?) of asking around or searching on this forum for better skill trees and builds and ships. Those of us who have gotten the swing of it shouldn't put them down either - they are simply lamenting about the fact that they haven't understood it (yet), and they are not at fault.

And about getting a relative ship. The Fleet Galaxy is still outperformed by other cruisers in terms of tanking ability. It is not really competitive, which is the point of this thread.

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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 789
# 42
02-17-2013, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
Actually, I suspect that PUGs, at least the ones you have played in, fail because people refuse to listen to pigheaded "wannabe-Fleet Commanders" like yourself.
Yeah, I was PUGging a while back and was chewed out by someone for not following his Elite STF Channel's APPROVED PLAN!!!!!! and holding off a bunch of Borg raptors by myself.

Note that this was normal difficulty. And that I was in maybe one of the first hundred or so Recluses in the game, before there were any builds in it. And I was level 46. With stock gear, because I was at the beginning of the gear grind.

And that we were winning anyway, by quite a lot. And that the only reason it was even close was because I stopped to argue with him.

And that his plan sucked anyway, because you can just blow all the cubes at once and not have to deal with waves of raptors.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 43
02-17-2013, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaanithegreen View Post
Yeah, I was PUGging a while back and was chewed out by someone for not following his Elite STF Channel's APPROVED PLAN!!!!!! and holding off a bunch of Borg raptors by myself.

Note that this was normal difficulty. And that I was in maybe one of the first hundred or so Recluses in the game, before there were any builds in it. And I was level 46. With stock gear, because I was at the beginning of the gear grind.

And that we were winning anyway, by quite a lot. And that the only reason it was even close was because I stopped to argue with him.

And that his plan sucked anyway, because you can just blow all the cubes at once and not have to deal with waves of raptors.
This is how elitism has crept its way into the game and Cryptic have encouraged and allowed this to happen.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
# 44
02-17-2013, 04:05 PM
I don't think any ship (at T5) is truly obsolete, if you like 'em, fly 'em. But in the world of optimization of ship builds and consoles, some are less useful in that sense.

How we got off topic is not a wonder. A properly flown RAdm ship is just as capable of completing an ESTF. The topic would be that these ships have done them in the past when they were harder and are still capable - the Captain is what's arguable.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 45
02-17-2013, 06:24 PM
All ships were created equal, it's just some are more equal than others!

Actually with regards to what Dan was saying, yes you can complete elite STF in a RA ship, infact with a good selection of skills you can use white mk XI gear and still be better than most pugs. Cryptic have upped the difficulty quite noticably and you can certainly be killed in 1-2 shots if you're unlucky even in the newer ships.

While the shiney new ships aren't needed to be good, to be at a level where you can make up for the sheer number of bad players in pugs a newer ship with more tactical consoles or more shields and hull will help a lot. Infact once you upgrade there is no reason to go back except for nostalgia or because you like the design of the ship.

I for one would love to fly an intrepid (fleet version if possible) but I know that short of pre-made teams I would be pretty much a support character to either heal or...what else do science skills escel at in PvE except gravity wells?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 46
02-17-2013, 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
what else do science skills excel at in PvE except gravity wells?
Leaping in front of Escorts in slow motion while screaming, "Noooooooooooo" in order to take the bullet.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,059
# 47
02-18-2013, 03:31 AM
here is another comparison to show why RA ships are obsolete compared to fleet ships.

Once you reach RA admiral each player is awarded a new ship, which has superior stats compared to the captain lvl ship.
Since the jump from captain lvl to RA is quite significant (Boff slots, console slots) nobody would ever get the idea to progress further in his captain level ship. So actually you can delete your captain level ship to make room for other ships.
While the jump from a T5 (9 console ship) to a fleet ship (or 10 console ship) is not that big of a leap, it still is a major improvement compared to the previous ship you had...which makes the T5 ship you had obsolete.
And considering the relative low cost (not talking about real money, just EC or dilithium) of a fleet ship compared to a lockbox ship or even a c-store ship (which mostly only come in 9 console versions anyway) it makes absolutely no sense for a half decent player to keep flying around in an outdated T5 ship. There are maybe 3 exceptions, the guramba for instance which has a build in ability that is immensly usefull.

Also for the record, i do not PUG that much anymore. When i do, i exclusively do infected space elite...where i can compensate for atleast 2 captain kirk rainbow cruisers.
Also i never forced any tactics on anybody...i expect people to know what to do when they join an elite stf.
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 48
02-18-2013, 04:46 AM
Just going to say this.

Any ship that has a Fleet level version is obsolete once you get access to said fleet level version. Most, if not all ships under level 40 access are also obsolete, due to lower hull, shield mods, BOff ability slots, and console slots. And as stated before, most ships that have less than 10 console slots are either obsolete or significantly inefficient in comparison (only exceptions being Birds-of-Prey, which have fewer console and BOff slots than every other ship of equal level). For that matter, most ships that you cannot access below level 50 are obsolete.

Exceptions to that last statement are lock box ships, the Breen Chel'Gret, and the Jem'hadar Attack Ship (no, it's NOT a lockbox ship).

Ex.
Patrol Escort
Rank: RA
Hull: 31k
Shield mod: .9
Console Count: 9
Universal BOffs: none

Fleet Patrol Escort
Rank: VA
Hull: 34100
Shield mod: .99
Console Count: 10
Universal BOffs: 1 Ensign

Fleet Patrol superior in every way.

Star Cruiser
Rank: RA
Hull: 39k
Shield mod: 1.0
Console Count: 9
Universal BOffs: none

Fleet Star Cruiser
Rank: VA
Hull: 42900
Shield mod: 1.1
Console Count: 10
Universal BOffs: none

Fleet Star Cruiser superior in every way.


I could do this all night with a ton more ships, but you get the idea.

P.S. It was stated earlier that RA ships with mk X white weapons could complete STFs and opts. It's true. They can. But it's not as efficient and is being a burden on your team-mates.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 387
# 49
02-18-2013, 05:23 AM
There was something I heard in Firefly that applies to every ship I own.

"But it ain't all buttons and charts, little albatross. You know what the first rule of flyin' is? Love. You can know all the math in the 'Verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells ya she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her home."

―Malcolm Reynolds

A love for a ship creates a bond between man and machine. You'll fight for her, and in return, she'll do everything she can to keep you from harm. Upgrade her weapons, bring her into spacedock for a bit to get some relaxating downtime, and you will have a ship that you find is less of a machine, and more of a teammate.

No ship is obsolete.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 158
# 50
02-18-2013, 06:45 AM
To be honest, I agree with asardtemplari. No ship is obsolete as long as a person is willing to fly it.

That being said, I will never fly a baseline (i.e. bought with dilithium) Tier 5 ship again. Especially the Patrol Escort, because I never did like that thing.

The opinions expressed in my posts are not necessarily those of my employer or Subspace Radio.
PS: My show is actually at 0200 GMT these days. I really need to dig up the PSD for that signature and redo it.
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