Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,614
# 1631
02-17-2013, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by hussere View Post
Take no offense but I think you are missing the whole thread line here.

so basicaly what you are suggesting is to multiply the amount of items grinding by a X factor, depending on how many X fleets you join and contribute to? xD

How to say ... Thanks but no thanks
It totally goes against the whole thread wich is :

Too much grind; not enough FUN

Beeing able to join more fleets will result in even more grind and won't solve anything
You missed the whole point of my post.

I am creating an ideal situation for people to remain in the fleets they are in, due to familial/language/country/friends/RP/etc reasons, and still be able to get rewards without having DStahl's option A used, or the current option B (severe toll on fleet members to progress).

This situation would allow people to reap the benefits of a large fleet without having the drawbacks of not enough members, while still retaining their existing small fleet.

Note that it is not merging fleets. Merging involves mixing the fleet rosters together and taking the best starbase. That is not what I propose.

Since most small fleets would not be content with simply having members and no donations to fleet projects, I inserted the ability to donate only. This way, it reduces the amount of provisions used up by fleet members, allowing fleet projects for the smaller fleet to progress without having to re-provision.

Sure, it doesn't really benefit the player. But fleets are NOT about the player. Fleets are about being a part of something bigger, and supporting them.

And yeah, it's not the best idea I've come up with. You are more than welcome to improve upon the three-fleet concept and build on it.

...the main concern is the forced grind and lack of fresh content. For a game that is three years old it still has a pitiful amount of content.

Changes brought about with S7 have changed working content to forced grind. Borg space weapons were NOT removed because they failed to work. On the contrary I have seen them work perfectly. They were removed because they didn't work in minor instances (Assimilated KDF Ships and Borg gates) and they were too easy to acquire. I personally would rather have a weapon that works 90% of the time than no weapon at all.
I agree completely with this. Season 7 is essentially the "grinding season". All we do is grind - now for the fleet starbases, embassies, personal equipment, omega rep, Romulan rep, dil exchange, etc. It is, frankly, ridiculous.

The three-fleet system doesn't exactly help in that regards, but it does help with allowing personal progression without being stuck in a small fleet - essentially, indirectly reducing the amount of grind to get the fleet base to the desired level.

stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
My Useful List of STO Forum Threads, Ship Builds & More!

Last edited by stardestroyer001; 02-17-2013 at 08:27 PM.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 1632
02-17-2013, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by omnimagus View Post
But hey, what do I know? I don't have any metrics.
Thank you omni. We are people not metrics and should never have been considered as such. As many have stated prior, metrics will never tell how people feel about a game and it's contents.

Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 238
# 1633
02-17-2013, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
Hm, I see your point, however there is one problem with that idea. Why would large fleets allow non-contributing members to reap the benefits of their work? What you are suggesting basicly exist in game right now actually, you can buy fleet ships and fleet gear already. Leave your fleet, join the other one, pay the agreed amount of cash/fleetmarks/whatever, get your gear and leave to rejoin your fleet. The gear is not the issue, the way the current game mechanics attempt to force us to join large fleets and play the game their way, that is the problem.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that there is too much grind as it is though, and that the last thing we need is more grind. We want the fun back in this game!!
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
Originally Posted by askray View Post
Expressing my opinion isn't trolling but nice try. Besides, if I was you wouldn't know it ;P
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 910
# 1634
02-17-2013, 08:54 PM
Too many people to quote, but I agree with the sentiment of NOT merging smaller Fleets.

The smaller Fleets are small because they choose to be. I am one of those 1-man Fleets that Mr. Stahl has mentioned. I'm a 1-man Fleet because I choose to be, and I acknowledge the fact that it will be harder for me to level up my Starbase than if I recruited 500 members. But that's ok. I knew that going in. And I'm not asking for any reduction in costs for Fleet projects. MY Starbase is my long term "project" in STO. And I don't want to lose what I've personally built and invested in through some merger.

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 1635
02-17-2013, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by meurik View Post
I don't fault them for removing Fleet Marks from non-Fleet activities.

I DO fault them for removing Fleet Marks, and not replacing them with an equivalent elsewhere. At the least, all existing "Fleet Events" and "Fleet Actions" should've been given a substantial amount of Fleet Marks as rewards. For that matter, ALL group content (including PVP and STFs) should be given an optional Fleet Mark reward as well.

These Fleet Marks should've been added to the game at the same time as removing them from the Foundry wrapper. It is UNACCEPTABLE to delay adding additional Fleet Marks elsewhere for several days or even weeks. And Mr Stahl suggests we may have to wait several MONTHS ??? That is sooo beyond unacceptable, it just isn't funny anymore.

Season 7 has done alot of rebalancing of where you get various rewards. And not always for the better either. The changes have been made with ZERO community input, before making the changes. And look at all the negative backlash that has been created as a result? First it was the Season 7 Dilithium fiasco, now this... What's next? A response, Mr Stahl?
This post hits the nail on the head, you would had thought they learned from the dilithium fiasco not to do something like this, it could had simply been averted by say something like we are takeing thefleet marks from the foundry but we are uping the reward in the fleet missions by 25% or how ever much, that way you are takeing them from something you say isnt a fleet thingy and putting it in something that is, see how simple that would had been easy peasy, oh well I hope they will learn from this time,
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,192
# 1636
02-17-2013, 09:07 PM
I start paid training for my new job tomorrow so I won't be on here until probably after 4PM Central. Gonna have to get up really early so I am about to call it a night. But I am checking in before I do to also pledge my support for the players.

A lot can happen between now and tomorrow afternoon. Perhaps this thread will still be open. Perhaps not. It is my hope that if they close it, they will also issue some form of official statement as to how they intend to resolve the issues addressed here. Customer satisfaction should be their number one priority. After all, their revenue generation relies on customer interest.

I have noticed several first time posters here in this thread. And their first posts have not been favorable of the arbitrary change that was made in the latest patch. These are representative of the silent majority who they tell us play the game but do not post on the forums... Well, they are posting now, and some of them aren't playing.

I am sorry, Dan... But it cannot be for the good of the game when it has such a massive negative effectn on the people who play. You guys need to get back to the roots of any business with a product to sell: The Customer Must Come First. I do not care what your asian overlords think. In asian culture, there is a predetermination to meticulous repetition for the sake of perfection. Look how many Asian kids display seemingly impossible talent in the arts compared to kids in western culture. This is a compliment to the level of discipline their culture has. But there is a very old saying: When in Rome, do as the Romans do... In Western culture we take a more laid back approach. Maybe that is not really so praiseworthy by comparrison, but that is an argument for another place and another time. Suffice to say many of us like to relax and enjoy our entertainment at our pace, doing what we choose to do with our time. At our jobs we have no choice but to meticulously work according to corporate directives and guidelines. We get paid to do that.

I do not like the idea that you guys want us to pay you to play a game that feels more like a second job. Dan, you said "We want players to do this" and "We want players to do that."

We do not work for you. You provide a product we enjoy and we will be happy to pay you for it. But you need to stop producing this in a way that makes players play how you want them to play. For one thing, the community becomes fractured, and another thing, people get bored. Both of these lead to people leaving and therefore not spending money.

So yes... I am with my fellow players who wish to take up the battle cry:


Dan, feel free to look at my account at how long it has been since I bought Zen or paid a subscription. You have not received money from me because NOTHING you offer is worth my money. I now return to the position I once held:

I want new official PLAYABLE Content that does not involve grinding. Either that or I want STO to adopt sandbox mechanics which present many gameplay systems that can play off of and with each other for emergent results which we the players can influence through our actions. Such systems will result in gameplay the has real meaning and substance and we the players can shape the future of the galaxy. I don't want a meatgrinder level sandbox like EvE. But a return to some of the sandbox principles that made games like Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies great. Yes Star Wars Galaxies was a great game before the same kind of short sighted executive level decisions Cryptic/PWE have been making destroyed it.

STO is by design a themepark game. Themepark games require playable content development to thrive. But we have developers who cannot make content development enough of a priority for more than a handfull of missions per year. Grindfests are the only thing that keep people seeking some sort of achievement, or reward for effort, in the game. But many, as evidenced in this thread hate it. They do it not because the want to, but because it is the only path to take.

So Cryptic, since bottom lines are all you care about, here's MY personal bottom line: If you want my money, you must EARN it. I'm not just going to give it to you.

And on that note, I bid you all good evening.
I'm not really a John Galt,
but I play one on the forums...

Last edited by sirsitsalot; 02-17-2013 at 09:10 PM.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 1637
02-17-2013, 09:07 PM
I absolutely agree a small fleet should be a 'project' but I also agree that it shouldn't be impossible. As stated even a proper sliding scale will cause small fleet still take a decent amount of time but still be plausible in this game's lifetime.

Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!

Last edited by bizzarquestion; 02-17-2013 at 09:11 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 1638
02-17-2013, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by themarie View Post
And this cuts to the heart of the matter.

Here's a suggestion: Folks want to earn fleetmarks for UGC yes? So find a way to tack them on to the rewards for running Spotlight missions.

That way there is some oversight and review for missions. The ones that pass muster (Review by Das Overflake or whoever ) issue fleet-marks and other "bonuses" as seen fit by whatever power reviews missions.

And THIS is the 800 Lb. gorilla in the room; The concept of "Playing as Intended"; we are only to do certain things within their planned framework that is SO restrictive, we are only allowed to use 4 sets for endgame and most new content has both a hard cap from rep marks AND a time cap limit.

Where's the fun in being corralled like cattle just to live up to an internal metric?
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 1639
02-17-2013, 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
STO is by design a themepark game.
I remember as a child going to Knott's Berry Farm. Myself, my brother, and a family friend went on the 'Log Ride' roughly 18 times in a row. It started out as awesome. There was hardly a line! After about the fifth or sixth time it became tedious, less about the experience and more about seeing how many times we could do it.

Currently this is how I feel about this game. It has become less about the actual experience and more about how many times we can do it before we get sick of it. If we continue 'riding the same ride' we get bored. We start to find new venues to relieve said boredom. Some it was 'farming' the IOR. Now some are finding new games.

I myself realized I have a month prepaid to play another game. It may not be the most fun game but the experience is different and much more enjoyable than the one I am currently getting from STO.

I hope that Stahl or whomever has the power to change things realizes what they are doing to this wonderful IP. Please people keep posting your disdain for the current state and direction this game is taking.

Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 16
# 1640
02-17-2013, 09:25 PM
I just wanted to add another voice to the group. We the players stand firm. I have not logged into the game since Thursday and will not until this fiasco is addressed. Keep up the fight, my friends. You know what they say about the squeaky wheel.
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