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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 21
02-17-2013, 05:51 PM
Look this argument of 'oh i can get it from the cstore at any time' is garbage. Once you have a tier 5 fleet ship you use it and you keep it. Across characters in an account? Thats also irrelevant as you can't come and say its a 'feature' when most accounts hardly have more than 2 KDF characters and of those chances are only one of them can fly the b'rel (skillpoint/boff templates, etc).

The point remains: The UNIQUE capability of the ship is being given away in the fleet version and those that have the cstore end up paying more to get the fleet version than someone who never bought the cstore version and just gets the fleet.

The cstore version needs something to make it worthy of still being purchased in the cstore. A console/device that works along the enhanced cloak is the only thing that will do it.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 621
# 22
02-18-2013, 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
Look this argument of 'oh i can get it from the cstore at any time' is garbage. Once you have a tier 5 fleet ship you use it and you keep it. Across characters in an account? Thats also irrelevant as you can't come and say its a 'feature' when most accounts hardly have more than 2 KDF characters and of those chances are only one of them can fly the b'rel (skillpoint/boff templates, etc).

Ok if you only had two KDF characters you still get a great discount. With the C-Store ship to get two Fleet B'rels you will spend 3K Zen. To get it without the C-Store ship you will spend 5K Zen. You would save 2K zen on this ship. That is the cost of several T5 C-Store ships right there!

As for not being able to fly the B'rel? It's a universal ship; every boff slot can be anything you want, any character and trait build can find a use for it. I've seen projectile only B'rels (currently run one), standard cannon B'rels, Science B'rels, at one point I used one as a Bird-of-Heals (eng/sci B'rel).

Oh and having two on one character is great. A PvP and a PvE ship. One for fighting in Kerrat or the Queues and another for things like Fed Minefield, so you can rake in lots of Dilithum and loot.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 23
02-19-2013, 12:31 AM
^ I agree.

I'm currently at 5 KDF characters, 4 of which occasionally fly the B'rel (2 tacs, 2 sci's. Will try my engineer in it at some point, but just need to figure out what abilities to run, first). Across those characters I run it as: trico-bomber for pve, torp boat, alpha striker, regular cannon bop, healer and a sci/cc vessel.

Once I get access to the fleet version, I'll get it for at least 1, maybe 3 of those.

I don't know. Any c-store ship I'd want to get the fleet version of, I'd make sure to have the c-store version first, as that upgrade discount makes it worth it as soon as you want it on more than 1 character.

In this case, for a single character, it's the same price too: 2000 zen for the c-store version + 1 module, or 5 modules for the fleet version only. Both equals 2500 zen. Don't get me wrong, if the c-store version gets a console or something I'll most likely use it, but so far, I'm not seeing how I'm getting disadvantaged by owning the c-store version.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,252
# 24
02-19-2013, 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
You're playing more than one top level KDF character? You're rarer than rare according to Cryptic datamining.
i'm playing 7, with an 8th at level 45. what does that make me then?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 25
02-19-2013, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlamstrike View Post
As for not being able to fly the B'rel? It's a universal ship; every boff slot can be anything you want, any character and trait build can find a use for it. I've seen projectile only B'rels (currently run one), standard cannon B'rels, Science B'rels, at one point I used one as a Bird-of-Heals (eng/sci B'rel).
The defining feature of the b'rel is the projectile - enhanced cloak. Running it as cannon ship is rather silly..you're better off with a heghta free tier 4 bop for that. Sci b'rels are novelty that wears off quickly.

Character templates differ. My two kdf toons have vastly different skill sets. One is an engineer tank the other is a pure torpedo tactical. Putting the engineer to fly the b'rel means he has very little torpedo skills, lots of tank skills and that by itself means the b'rel is a waste to fly ..the skill sets do not match the ship.

In any case we go back to square one. non-cstore purchasers are receiving the b'rels enhanced cloak and better stats for less zen than cstore owning brel captains who get the fleet version. even with the discount.

If the cstore brel is given the device I suggest then all existing cstore brel owners would have nothing to complain and those who do get the fleet version would have the same incentive as any other cstore ship they are based upon...to buy it. To get the special unique ability that comes with the ship's console.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 636
# 26
02-19-2013, 09:00 AM
I love how he totally thinks that this ridiculous thing is going to get made and put on the B'rel.


*at best* they'll make something themselves and stick it on. But most probably they'll either do nothing, or provide some quiet buff to compensate the C-store purchasers, as I very much agree is needed. The Excelsior doesn't really count in this case, because its abilities are not useable in combat, so while it has a value or weight to it greater than comparable ships, that value isn't magnified by its superiority over other vessels- transwarp has a set of built in limitations that make having the extra destinations nice, but not impressively good.

The B'rel on the other hand is defined by its enhanced battle cloak, and to say that special power is worth just an extra module is like how the fleet tactical retrofit's cloak is worth an extra modu- wait no it isn't, you can only get that from the C-store.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
# 27
02-19-2013, 09:09 AM
C-Store B'Rel = 2000 Zen
Fleet B'Rel = 5 Fleet Modules (2500 Zen) or 1 Fleet Module (500 Zen) if you own C-Store B'Rel

So 2500 Zen for the 5 Fleet Modules costs less than 2500 Zen for buying the C-Store B'Rel plus 1 Fleet Module? I know my math isn't the best but I fail to see where 2500 Zen costs more than 2500 Zen...
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 621
# 28
02-19-2013, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
The defining feature of the b'rel is the projectile - enhanced cloak. Running it as cannon ship is rather silly..you're better off with a heghta free tier 4 bop for that.
That's kind of like saying the Oddy must always use its consoles. The EBC is an option, the B'rel can operate as a standard BoP while using it as a normal cloak as well, and since it has the best turn rate in game it makes a great gunfighter style ship to combat people who load up on RCS consoles aboard their Escorts (that is a signature of a few PvP fleets).

Quote:
Sci b'rels are novelty that wears off quickly.
Well Sci-BoPs are the closest thing to a KDF Vesta atm.

Quote:
Character templates differ. My two kdf toons have vastly different skill sets. One is an engineer tank the other is a pure torpedo tactical. Putting the engineer to fly the b'rel means he has very little torpedo skills, lots of tank skills and that by itself means the b'rel is a waste to fly ..the skill sets do not match the ship.
Then don't put torpedoes on it! Use it as a tanky Eng-Scort and the B'rel becomes a more nimble version of the Heng'ta.

Quote:
In any case we go back to square one. non-cstore purchasers are receiving the b'rels enhanced cloak and better stats for less zen than cstore owning brel captains who get the fleet version. even with the discount.
Where is this discount coming from? The Fleet B'rel costs 5 FSM unless you own the C-Store ship which equals the C-Store ship plus 1 FSM.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 29
02-20-2013, 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
I love how he totally thinks that this ridiculous thing is going to get made and put on the B'rel.
I can only suggest. I know they wont put it in. Its a KDF ship. If it was a federation ship it'd be done in a week.


Quote:
The B'rel on the other hand is defined by its enhanced battle cloak, and to say that special power is worth just an extra module is like how the fleet tactical retrofit's cloak is worth an extra modu- wait no it isn't, you can only get that from the C-store.
The defiant fleet version does not cloak.... but it CAN equip the cloaking console from the cstore defiant.

If the b'rel enhanced cloak was a console this wouldn't be a problem. But it isnt because all birds of prey have their cloaks built in. Making enchanced cloak a console would make the b'rel rather weak as well. The only thing that can be done that will keep the b'rel cstore worthy of buying is to have some console that will work with the enhanced cloak. Again, a no-torpedo-global-timer during ambush effect is ideal for this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tlamstrike View Post
That's kind of like saying the Oddy must always use its consoles. The EBC is an option, the B'rel can operate as a standard BoP while using it as a normal cloak as well, and since it has the best turn rate in game it makes a great gunfighter style ship to combat people who load up on RCS consoles aboard their Escorts (that is a signature of a few PvP fleets).
using guns removes the enhanced cloak. thats all you need to consider. If you wanted to get a gun bop youd get the hohsus or fleet ningtao (or is it the fleet norgh? I forget... the one with multiple lt cmdr slots).

Quote:
Then don't put torpedoes on it! Use it as a tanky Eng-Scort and the B'rel becomes a more nimble version of the Heng'ta.
with less hull and shields...unless you get fleet brel (which is the whole screwed pooch point here). Makes no sense. Sure, you could, but why? Just because you have no other option but to use it like that is not a reason for saying 'look! buy this ship and its good for guns and tanking!' . Its like buying a civic to do the job of a pickup truck.

Quote:
Where is this discount coming from? The Fleet B'rel costs 5 FSM unless you own the C-Store ship which equals the C-Store ship plus 1 FSM.
cstore brel owners: 2k zen (i think this ship used to cost 2500) + 500 for 1 module.
Non-cstore owners: 2k zen for the whole ship. Receive full benefit plus better ship for not owning cstore version.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg

Last edited by cmdrskyfaller; 02-20-2013 at 07:37 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,493
# 30
02-20-2013, 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
cstore brel owners: 2k zen (i think this ship used to cost 2500) + 500 for 1 module.
Non-cstore owners: 2k zen for the whole ship. Receive full benefit plus better ship for not owning cstore version.
Except that the Fleet B'rel costs 5 FSM, which is 2500 Zen. C-Store B'rel has cost 2000 Zen since the conversion from C-Points to Zen.
Please stop exponential holding/reputation costs!
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