Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
# 11
02-15-2013, 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustafatennick View Post
What...

Cruisers broadside that's their thing regardless of cheese torp or not

You clearly haven't been on the recovering end of a 4 cannons 4 turret with DEMIII backed up by 4 tac consoles if you had you'd know beams play second fiddle to this all day long

The fleet acr is the one in my opinion if I had access to a tier 5 fleet it would be sat there heading up my line of ships
You are correct, I haven't, I've been on the receiving end of that kinda build from an escort only. I'm just offering a different build. Just as I think you are intending to do.

I, personally, was never satisfied with the single cannons. My Excel-R has just sat there for a long time. Though I'm not sure how I'd feel about that build if I couldn't chain DEM 3, I guess you could to 3 and 1 to keep it up. /shrug

Last edited by dan6526; 02-15-2013 at 03:16 PM. Reason: clarification
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 12
02-15-2013, 03:53 PM
Thanks for the opinions and advice guys.

Well the Oddy certainly looks to be out of the running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
I thought you were one always arguing against tac dps cruisers,
I am, but I'm also a fan of larger starships, especially in Trek. Also it's nice to try to challenge yourself.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,754
# 13
02-15-2013, 03:57 PM
Fleet Assault and Fleet Excelsior are tremendous ships. Assault has the slightly better boff layout, whilst Excelsior has the better turn, and the useful transwarp. Excelsior is however easier to get, being only Tier 3 shipyard, opposed to the Assault's Tier 5.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 82
# 14
02-19-2013, 08:05 PM
Sorry for bumping this kind of old thread, but I have purchased the Assault Refit, and I am trying to come up with a decent build for it. I'm pretty new so don't have much in the way of crazy doffs or gear, but my general goal is to be as heavy hitting as possible.

Currently I am running a 7 Tetryon beam array, Wide Angel torp in the fore, with my boffs being

Lieutenant Uni: Hazard Emitters 1, Transfer Shield Strength 2

Lt. Cmnd Tac: Tac Team 1, Fire at Will 2, Attack Pattern Omega 1

Ensign Tac: High Yield Torpedo

Com Engi: Emergency to Shields 1, Directed Energy Mod 1, Emergency to Weapons 3, Auxilary to Structural 3

Lt. Engi: Emergency to Shields 1, Emergency to Weapons 2

Is there anything I can do to improve what I have going on? Ala changing from Beam Arrays to Banks or Cannons? Or changing around my Boff slots? Or even changing energy types? Basically whatever I can to preserve the feeling of being a really awesome battleship, escorts just felt weird to play; either seeming like a fighter or just sitting still.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 15
02-20-2013, 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by melisande77 View Post
Sorry for bumping this kind of old thread, but I have purchased the Assault Refit, and I am trying to come up with a decent build for it. I'm pretty new so don't have much in the way of crazy doffs or gear, but my general goal is to be as heavy hitting as possible.
From what I have seen, your build is neither particularly heavy-hitting, and not particularly resilient by cruiser standards. The latter respect is particularly important because your survivability also dictates how well you can dish out damage: cruisers are meant to stay in a fight and slug it out.

The nice thing about the Assault Cruiser Refit is that it's one of the better offensive cruisers out there, but the thing is that it's kind of tricky to put together. It took me about three different equipment load-outs, countless boff ability swaps and two respecs before settling on a workable offensive/tanking build.

Quote:
Currently I am running a 7 Tetryon beam array, Wide Angel torp in the fore
If you're going pure energy weapons in terms of skills, ditch the wide-angle. If not, keep it and pair it off with another projectile weapon located aft. Hargh'Peng and Breen Transphasic Cluster seem to be popular choices here, although pretty much anything could work.

Consider getting a Borg Cutting Beam and an Assimilated Module. Whether you want to get the Omega Plasma Torpedo or not is up to you, since that will depend on whether or not you spec into torpedoes. The three-item set proc could be nice, but I personally feel that it is too unreliable. As I have yet to reach Tier IV reputation, I cannot comment on the effectiveness of the torpedo launcher.

Quote:
with my boffs being

Lieutenant Uni: Hazard Emitters 1, Transfer Shield Strength 2
Nothing wrong here. Personal experience tells me that the AC needs a sci officer on hand with those oh-so-useful support heals. However, I keep getting this nagging feeling that I should at least try filling it with an Engineer or Tactical boff...

Quote:
Lt. Cmnd Tac: Tac Team 1, Fire at Will 2, Attack Pattern Omega 1

Ensign Tac: High Yield Torpedo
Tac Team is always useful, especially on a cruiser.

Fire at Will is pretty much required for any cruiser with beam arrays, and I would recommend at least level 2-3 as you have here. Level 1 may be manageable as a back-up, though.

Attack Pattern Omega is of questionable use, partly because it isn't particularly well-suited for cruisers and also because it is a terrible waste of your only Tactical Lt Commander slot. On a cruiser, Emergency Power abilities are generally more useful for boosts, especially where firing energy weapons are concerned. A better use of your Tactical Lt Commander slot would be Fire at Will 3, Torpedo Spread 3, High Yield Torpedo 3, or Attack Pattern Beta 2.

High Yield isn't a bad idea, but I'd recommend at least level 2. Torpedo Spread might be a better choice, although I'd recommend either another Tactical Team or Beam Overload if you are going beam-heavy.

Quote:
Com Engi: Emergency to Shields 1, Directed Energy Mod 1, Emergency to Weapons 3, Auxilary to Structural 3

Lt. Engi: Emergency to Shields 1, Emergency to Weapons 2
Your Engineering layout is atrocious. What you've got here wouldn't stand a stiff breeze.

As an Engineer, you should always consider having AT LEAST one Engineering Team handy. The instant hull heal is good for emergencies and the ability to clear disabled subsystems can be a life-saver in a tight spot.

Directed Energy Modulation 1 is junk: you should always go for at least 2 or 3. Also, while DEM is usable with beams (especially in combination with Fire at Will), it is generally better with cannons.

All your Emergency Power abilities are badly laid out. You're not going to keep up your shields with just two level 1 abilities and Transfer Sheild Strength 2 alone. Likewise, you're not going to be able to cycle between your level 2 and 3 weapons when under fire.

Auxiliary to Structural 3 is alright, but you may also consider sacrificing it in favour of Directed Energy Modulation 3 or Eject Warp Plasma 3, depending on your build.

This is probably the most badly-planned (and essential) section of your build, so I will take the liberty of suggesting the following layout, to fit in with what you've already got.

Commander Eng

Engineering Team 1
Reverse Shield Polarity 1
Emergency Power to Weapons 3
Auxiliary to Structural 3

Lt Eng

Emergency Power to Shields 1
Emergency Power to Shields 2

Cycle Emergency Power to Shields abilities when in an intense fire fight.

Apply Engineering Team 1 when hull running low or when a subsystem has been disabled.

Constantly apply Auxiliary to Structural 3 whenever your hull receives damage.

Reverse Shield Polarity as a last resort, should your shields fall on two or more sides.

Mind you, I will admit that this was made up off the top of my head, and is not perfect. I get the feeling that one or two abilities aren't in the right place, and that the whole thing lacks solid shield-restoring capability.

Quote:
Is there anything I can do to improve what I have going on? Ala changing from Beam Arrays to Banks or Cannons? Or changing around my Boff slots? Or even changing energy types? Basically whatever I can to preserve the feeling of being a really awesome battleship, escorts just felt weird to play; either seeming like a fighter or just sitting still.
Keep arrays.

Change your boff abilities.

Do not neglect your survivability.

Last edited by eraserfish; 02-20-2013 at 02:52 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,005
# 16
02-20-2013, 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
no with aux2bat build you have so much engine power its easy enough to keep 180 degree firing arc weapons on target with any of those ships.
that is true for PVP, on the other hand it is of no concern when playing PVE content.

as i see it, aux2batt build is the way to go for the excelsior and ACR, the only difference is that the ACR can support a torpedo power (spread or high yield) for it's 180 degree torpedo. The excelsior instead can support an engineering team 1 which is usefull.

so, for PVE the ACR would be my choice (either beams or cannons)...for PVP the excelsior (with beams)
But i'm not sure if a cruiser is viable for team PVP for the DD slot, better have a heal cruiser at which the oddy is probably among the best choices.

personally i use a tac oddy with an engi captain for PVE exclusively, for me it represents a perfect combination of tankiness and DD, while the saucer separation gives very high manuverability.
Go pro or go home
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,754
# 17
02-20-2013, 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
Your Engineering layout is atrocious. What you've got here wouldn't stand a stiff breeze.

As an Engineer, you should always consider having AT LEAST one Engineering Team handy. The instant hull heal is good for emergencies and the ability to clear disabled subsystems can be a life-saver in a tight spot.

Auxiliary to Structural 3 is alright, but you may also consider sacrificing it in favour of Directed Energy Modulation 3 or Eject Warp Plasma 3, depending on your build.
What are you smoking? Aux2SIF3 is hands down the best hull healing skill in the game. It leaves all forms of ET writhing in the dust. Huge heal and tiny cooldown, and doesn't interfere with anything on a non-Aux2Bat build. ET also interferes with TT, which is way more important. Engi debuffs are the least dangerous in the game, Viral Matrix is rarely used in PvP, and only Tholians and Warbirds use it to any reasonable effect in PvE. DEM is junk in whatever form you use. And replacing Aux2SIF3 (a premium ability by the way) with EWP3? Oh please!
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 18
02-20-2013, 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 View Post
What are you smoking? Aux2SIF3 is hands down the best hull healing skill in the game. It leaves all forms of ET writhing in the dust. Huge heal and tiny cooldown, and doesn't interfere with anything on a non-Aux2Bat build. ET also interferes with TT, which is way more important. Engi debuffs are the least dangerous in the game, Viral Matrix is rarely used in PvP, and only Tholians and Warbirds use it to any reasonable effect in PvE. DEM is junk in whatever form you use. And replacing Aux2SIF3 (a premium ability by the way) with EWP3? Oh please!
Well this fellow wants to optimize offensive punch, so I'm offering options to him. In any case, Aux to Structural 3's strength depends on auxiliary power levels, which I am assuming that not everyone would care to maintain at a sufficiently high level to make good use of.

As for Engineering Team, I believe that there should always be at least one instance of it, as an emergency heal. It does not rely on auxiliary and the heal is respectable at all levels. TT takes back-seat if your hull has gone down below 50% and you've turned on Reverse Shield Polarity. And while Viral Matrix isn't that deadly, it is annoying, and the repeated interruptions of subsystems can screw up your tempo.

Last edited by eraserfish; 02-20-2013 at 04:04 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,754
# 19
02-20-2013, 04:31 AM
True, I keep ET1 around only because the FExcelsior's Ensign Engi has nothing better to go into it. However I run Aux2SIF3 with minimum power to aux, and recieve no problems. Besides, your shield heal should be of a greater priority. A cycle of the following, in addition to the correct rep passives, will see your shield facings stay up almost constantly during eSTFs (just watch out for those insta torps and plasma stacking):

EptS1 x2 (x1 with DCE), RSP2, RSF, TSS, TT1 x2 (x1 with Conn doff)

Considering such, below is my recommended engi setup for a Fleet AC. To adapt for a Fleet Exc, just add an ET1, and make sure you keep a TT1 (you should really get a Conn Officer for either build though).

EptS1, EptW2, RSP2, Aux2SIF3
EptS1, EptW2
(ET1)

With 3 blue or purple DCEs, you can remove 1 EptS and 1 EptW, which opens another option:

EptS1, RSP1, ????, Aux2SIF3
EptW1, RSP1
(ET1)

The other engi skills are just shiny garbage (except Aux2Batt, but that requires an entirely different setup).

Last edited by smokeybacon90; 02-20-2013 at 04:34 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 208
# 20
02-20-2013, 05:30 AM
If you want to give the Assault Cruiser Refit a better turn rate and more speed; there is a viable alternative... chaining Auxiliary to Dampeners.

In one build I used (note: this was a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit)

Lt Eng - Emergency Power to Shields I, Auxiliary to Dampeners I
Cmd Eng - Emergency Power to Weapons I, Auxiliary to Dampeners I, Directed Energy Modulation II, Directed Energy Modulation III

Lt Sci - Hazard Emitters I, Transfer Shield Strength II

Ens Tac - Fire at Will I
LtC Tac - Tactical Team I, Attack Pattern Beta I, Attack Pattern Beta II

Eng Consoles: VR Neutronium Mk XII, Assimilated Module, Zero-Point Energy Conduit, Tachyokinetic Converter
Sci Consoles: 2 VR Field Generators Mk XII
Tac Consoles: 4 VR Disruptor Induction Coils Mk XII

Weapons Fore: 3x Spiral Wave Disruptors, 1 Kinetic Cutting Beam
Weapons Aft: 4x Spiral Wave Disruptors

Deflector, Engines, Shields - Mk XII Borg Set

Doffs: 2 Conn-Tactical Team Variants, 3 Damage Control Officers

With this build my average DPS at Starbase 234 was 4,928.13 and in ISE it was 6,593.69

Without Chaining Auxiliary to Dampeners - Speed: 21.89, Turn Rate: 11.8
Chaining Auxiliary to Dampeners - Speed: 31.09, Turn Rate: 17.6

I used the Kinetic Cutting Beam instead of the Wide Angle Quantum because the final average DPS was higher... and I killed things quicker with it.

With the right pilot, and some slight modifications to the BOff powers and swapping out some DOffs, it would be an easy transition to cannons and turrets.
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