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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,297
# 61
02-20-2013, 09:30 AM
You know what.

It's the one of the few things left to the KDF in their arsenal, and I hardly ever see Energy Siphon builds, thanks to Feds turning it into a dirty rep. all the while running danube + phaser proc builds + ams, and yet still claiming the moral high ground.

Leave it be.

The feds have more than enough of their own G#dd#mn broken stuff.

No Offense to the OP, whose my mate - I am just feeling a bit sensitive lately around the KDF.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 02-20-2013 at 09:37 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 62
02-20-2013, 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
To say the truth i dont think the vestas are worth my dime and therefore i have not purchased them. Look at the current serious premades. All i see are the temporal sci ships, not the vestas.

At the end of the day, all this attitude will do is make the FvK ques defunct which in turn will screw klinks even more. If that is what you want your going the right way.
Seriously, are you comparing the lastest OP Lotto/Lobi Sci ship w/the lasted OP Fed ship? Everyone should know by design Lotto/Lobi is supposed to be greater than Faction Zen ships. Should we discuss the abuses of these Timeships not only in a gameplay balance perspective, the the d-sync potential?

Here's the issue I have w/that thought process. Just b/c the Jem has been considered the most OP escort doesn't mean Feds don't have some escorts >>> KDF. Feds Sci >>> KDF Sci. This would be fine if they didn't insist on nerfing the Hit of the Hit and Run KDF faction playstyle.

Fleet Shields, Passive Repairs, buff to HP of hull and shields (even the recent one to KDF side) has continued to push the game into Fed only style of play. I know some don't like things blowing up quickly, but that's the point of Hit and Run. Granted it shouldn't be a large % success the 1st pass all things being equal (which doesn't happen vs good players), but at somepoint the dam needs to break and quickly. Enough Human Boffs and people will passively repair their hull in 30 seconds or less while in combat. Picking out Siphons at this point is a joke tbh.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 525
# 63
02-20-2013, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
You know what.

It's the one of the few things left to the KDF in their arsenal, and I hardly ever see Energy Siphon builds, thanks to Feds turning it into a dirty rep. all the while running danube + phaser proc builds + ams, and yet still claiming the moral high ground.

Leave it be.

The feds have more than enough of their own G#dd#mn broken stuff.

No Offense to the OP, whose my mate - I am just feeling a bit sensitive lately around the KDF.
I think the first step to living up KDF is bridging the imbalance between ships (IE, no more cross-faction LOCKBOX TRASH,) and fixing the obviously exploitable drain mechanics.

It really doesn't take much effort, nor does the player lose anything by executing the tactics. That is the underlying issue, IMO. It's also the reason I rarely play any of my 10 KDF anymore. I don't find it fun killing targets with no power. (among other things.) My KDF are superior in development and play time to my feds but I have more fun playing fed simply because it's more of a challenge.

Anyway it's my belief that repairing the damage some have done with these cheap tactics and PWE's cross-faction ship crap will do wonders for improving KDF. Maybe the queues can liven up and the players that kick-ass will return to KDF. For now, most either left the game or play fed more. It's really a bad place for the faction, ATM & IMO.

To end, siphons aren't as bad as they used to be, but a coordinated team (doesn't even need to be a team!) can easily exploit them with various other drain mechanics and holds; therein lies the issue.
-X-/Pandas - Pheo
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 525
# 64
02-20-2013, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Enough Human Boffs and people will passively repair their hull in 30 seconds or less while in combat. Picking out Siphons at this point is a joke tbh.
Humans need to be looked at. There is absolutely no reason the repair rate gets a static improvement in and out of combat. There should be diminishing returns while in combat based off of crew, IMO. Or at least a significant reduction is effectiveness while in combat.
-X-/Pandas - Pheo
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,685
# 65
02-20-2013, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremenoob1 View Post
...fixing the obviously exploitable drain mechanics...I rarely play any of my 10 KDF anymore. I don't find it fun killing targets with no power. (among other things.) My KDF are superior in development and play time to my feds but I have more fun playing fed simply because it's more of a challenge...siphons aren't as bad as they used to be, but a coordinated team (doesn't even need to be a team!) can easily exploit them with various other drain mechanics and holds; therein lies the issue.
And this is the simple truth! Thanks!
After a fierce battle against the evuls a Fed Captain needs some relax!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 66
02-20-2013, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rooster75 View Post
I totally get that. The other poster asked a question and the screencap gave a good reply to that particular question.

What should be looked at is how resists appear to not be working properly against Siphons.

IIRC, when the most recent balance pass happened consoles (plas leech) and pets (sipohons) were set to not be resisted as strongly as BOFF powers.


It was explained that this was because they (and I'm paraphrasing) 'have an opportunity cost' slotting them.


I'm not sure why BOFF powers aren't considered to have an opportunity cost, it didn't make much sense to me then and it doesn't make much sense now.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 67
02-20-2013, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
IIRC, when the most recent balance pass happened consoles (plas leech) and pets (sipohons) were set to not be resisted as strongly as BOFF powers.


It was explained that this was because they (and I'm paraphrasing) 'have an opportunity cost' slotting them.


I'm not sure why BOFF powers aren't considered to have an opportunity cost, it didn't make much sense to me then and it doesn't make much sense now.
It's the same reason tach mines are more effective then a shield drain Boff build, $.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 68
02-20-2013, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starwrathforever View Post
And this is the simple truth! Thanks!
I see far more Bug and Temp Sci ships than I see siphon drones, and I'm talking about KvK not FvK.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,468
# 69
02-20-2013, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremenoob1 View Post
Humans need to be looked at. There is absolutely no reason the repair rate gets a static improvement in and out of combat. There should be diminishing returns while in combat based off of crew, IMO. Or at least a significant reduction is effectiveness while in combat.
There is... it goes from ~5+% out of combat down to ~3+% in combat...per second. It's only around ~58% effective in combat. /cough

It is pretty bad how good it is. Not sure how anybody in good faith could say otherwise.

But still, that gets into something for the PvP Concerns thread, no?

There's all sorts of things that are "broken" - just because X is broken doesn't mean Y isn't.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,468
# 70
02-20-2013, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
I see far more Bug and Temp Sci ships than I see siphon drones, and I'm talking about KvK not FvK.
Because it's the FotY/M/W/D thing - it's far more effective (OP, some would say) to run that combination of Bugs and Temp ships. It's pretty much "the" way to kill stuff with the way things are since S7.

You've got your healing and Bill Nye bag of dirty tricks from the Temp ships and you've got that insane spike damage from the Bugs against the "defenseless" target.

With the way they've taken everything to extremes... siphon/drain builds, while they may or may not still be a problem - are nowhere near the threat of Bug/Temp teams.
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