Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 805
# 2391
02-20-2013, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloctoad View Post
The removal of IOR took away the whiskey and polio blanket. Now we're left with just empty promises and beads to face this quite irksome STO existence.
Before this fiasco, I was content to just do things at my own pace, not worrying about how long it would take me to advance in fleet holdings. So it never really bothered me. The removial of the IOR doesn't really bother me either.

What bothers me is the way that it was done, with no warning and no care to how the community would respond, and the subsequent brush-off this 2000+ post thread's participants who have voiced concerns that go far beyond that of Fleet Marks.

If this change is what they feel will help the game in the long run, when taking into account things that are coming between now and the major update in May, then fine. But it would be nice if they would COMMUNICATE things to us. But they have not even so much as politely expressed their position with a "We understand that you are upset, but we are in the process of stabelizing everything and once we have rolled out additions to the system to prepare for the May update, you will see that it is worth it."

Instead the responses have been very cut-and-dry with no indication that they care one whit about how upset we are. No efforts on their part have been made to ease our frustration. THAT gets me more upset than the changes to the game, which I can adapt to if I am patient. It's not like I am required to spend any money to play the game, and because I don't treat the fleet holding progression options like something I have to do as quickly as possible, adapting comes easier.

This whole thing could have been handled better. and as long as it continues to be handled poorly on PWE's part, with Dan just being their mouthpiece and puppet (because he wants to keep his job and would likely lose it if he defied the will of his corporate masters), then this thread, will continue to grow and the frustration will only grow with it.

In China, the average person may be willing to accept that things are just how they are and nothing they can do will change it so they just roll with whatever happens silently and continue to methodically go about their lives. But in the western world, where democracy is, for the most part, not just illusory, the average person chooses not to accept and just roll with things they don't like. PWE is trying their damnedest to force the eastern methodology down westerner throats, and we are vomiting it back in their faces. Whether our resistance changes anything or not, we must resist.

So I stand on the side of the players who are angry and frustrated by PWE's treatment. It's not just about changes to the game anymore. It's about the marginalization of the very ones PWE wants to get money from.
I personally want a Star Trek game that is actually Star Trek. On a qualitative level that could be a lot of different things for a lot of different people. But on a quantitative level, if the developers were to watch star trek and make the game like what they see, then at least it will be a shot in the right direction, as far as I am concerned.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 300
# 2392
02-20-2013, 08:34 AM
Should have made more use of IOR and the one-clicks before that. Cryptic has made me regret not exploiting the foundry, more fool me. :/
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
# 2393
02-20-2013, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
This is currently the 3rd most commented post in the news section since beta and also the 7th most view post - it's generated more customer ire than any issue in the 3 year history of STO.
This may be the most commented thread, but it's pretty much the same people posting over and over I wonder how many individuals have actually posted. Personally, I'm not upset because I wasn't exploiting the rewards so never gained a dependency on them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 2394
02-20-2013, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
I agree totally, I just don't know if we can organize into a group, there is nothing they can do if you as an individual want to criticize.

However if we keep things informal or they at least have the appearance of informality I don't see what they can do.

If we start making T-shirts, open a website and accept donations there could be implications, but I'm really speaking from a position of ignorance here.
They may gripe if shirts and a website were hawked on their forums but from a third party site with no connection back to their forums they have no legal grounds. But they have been known to harass third party sites in the past.
All cloaks should be canon.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 2395
02-20-2013, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
Before this fiasco, I was content to just do things at my own pace, not worrying about how long it would take me to advance in fleet holdings. So it never really bothered me. The removial of the IOR doesn't really bother me either.

What bothers me is the way that it was done, with no warning and no care to how the community would respond, and the subsequent brush-off this 2000+ post thread's participants who have voiced concerns that go far beyond that of Fleet Marks.

If this change is what they feel will help the game in the long run, when taking into account things that are coming between now and the major update in May, then fine. But it would be nice if they would COMMUNICATE things to us. But they have not even so much as politely expressed their position with a "We understand that you are upset, but we are in the process of stabelizing everything and once we have rolled out additions to the system to prepare for the May update, you will see that it is worth it."

Instead the responses have been very cut-and-dry with no indication that they care one whit about how upset we are. No efforts on their part have been made to ease our frustration. THAT gets me more upset than the changes to the game, which I can adapt to if I am patient. It's not like I am required to spend any money to play the game, and because I don't treat the fleet holding progression options like something I have to do as quickly as possible, adapting comes easier.

This whole thing could have been handled better. and as long as it continues to be handled poorly on PWE's part, with Dan just being their mouthpiece and puppet (because he wants to keep his job and would likely lose it if he defied the will of his corporate masters), then this thread, will continue to grow and the frustration will only grow with it.

In China, the average person may be willing to accept that things are just how they are and nothing they can do will change it so they just roll with whatever happens silently and continue to methodically go about their lives. But in the western world, where democracy is, for the most part, not just illusory, the average person chooses not to accept and just roll with things they don't like. PWE is trying their damnedest to force the eastern methodology down westerner throats, and we are vomiting it back in their faces. Whether our resistance changes anything or not, we must resist.

So I stand on the side of the players who are angry and frustrated by PWE's treatment. It's not just about changes to the game anymore. It's about the marginalization of the very ones PWE wants to get money from.
You forget what they took away and withheld while offering the whiskey and polio blanket in the first place. We should never have been relegated to clinging to either. If Cryptic ever cared about longevity we would never have seen ships from lockboxes merely supplementary equipment. We'd have a real, dynamic reputation system not a glorified currency grind, half of which we spent the first two years playing. And they would actually fix the myriad of bugs that have been plaguing this game since its inception.

The only thing they are concerned with is the amount of money they can make off their next instant cash grab until enough people get tired of the sideshow and get hooked on Neverwinter by the same bait. How many different lockboxes have we had now in what timeframe? Yet the team isn't big enough to fix the Tholian Red Alert or Beam to First City.
All cloaks should be canon.

Last edited by bloctoad; 02-20-2013 at 08:52 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,221
# 2396
02-20-2013, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khamseenair View Post
Translation:
We ****ed up big time and didn't expect such a huge backlash from it. Currently we're lost for words because we know that nothing we can say will fix how much of a screw up we just made. Now we're going to pull double-shifts until Thursday in the vain hope of finding some way we can try to remedy the problem.
Take er easy! Holy Roddenberry are people ever mad! Guys, at least they've said they are going to do something. That's a partial win in my book for small fleets and advocates for restoring the old IOR rewards. Better late than never.

Edit: That being said, I'm not going to hold my breath here. I don't expect a grand solution. It will most likely be a half baked band-aid that will somewhat appease the mobs until they can institute a more permanent solution.
=^= Starfleet Code Red Message =^= Starfleet intelligence's central network was compromised by an insidious ARC virus. All captains are to avoid contact with the ARC until we can ascertain how dangerous it is. All ships remain on high alert!

Last edited by knuhteb5; 02-20-2013 at 08:51 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 186
# 2397
02-20-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knuhteb5 View Post
Take er easy! Holy Roddenberry are people ever mad! Guys, at least they've said they are going to do something. That's a partial win in my book for small fleets and advocated for the old IOR rewards. Better late than never.

Edit: That being said, I'm not going to hold my breath here. I don't expect a grand solution. It will most likely be a half baked band-aid that will somewhat appease the mobs until they can institute a more permanent solution.
While I would agree, its nice to see them do something. For me, it gets down to them doing things bassackwards to start with.

Remember, they blamed YOU the players for the exploiting, yet they created the exploit to start with.

never mind the way it was done. Just points to a systematic failure within cryptic, that they will not address. I am convinced now, they do not know how to do so.
Next time you log in, ask yourself this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
If you can't have fun, then what is the point?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 2398
02-20-2013, 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theincredible33 View Post
This may be the most commented thread, but it's pretty much the same people posting over and over I wonder how many individuals have actually posted. Personally, I'm not upset because I wasn't exploiting the rewards so never gained a dependency on them.
I'm compiling exactly those statistics now for the benefit of the community and Cryptic.

The majority of posts in this huge thread are overwhelmingly against the change. And believe me, this does affect you, because if Cryptic are left unaccountable for this - something that's angered a large number of the forum community, what makes you think they'll care when they finally do something that does affect you?

Nobody here is saying the Fleet Marks should have stayed on Foundry missions, nobody here is disagreeing that these things were being 'exploited' - what they're saying is that you don't remove the single largest source of [a currency] from an MMO without having any immediate plans to restore the balance in some way.

Some of us played IOR maybe once or twice a day - and played story content too - not grinders - that got us 700 FMs a week - those are gone now. There's no adequate excuse for that.
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 2399
02-20-2013, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuui13 View Post
While I would agree, its nice to see them do something. For me, it gets down to them doing things bassackwards to start with.

Remember, they blamed YOU the players for the exploiting, yet they created the exploit to start with.

never mind the way it was done. Just points to a systematic failure within cryptic, that they will not address. I am convinced now, they do not know how to do so.
But that does raise a point, its not Cryptic's fault that the players are always looking for the next exploit. Even if one is there, doesn't mean the players should actually use it. You can steal something from a shop, because the shopkeeper has left it open on the window-side, doesn't mean you should...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 2400
02-20-2013, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
But that does raise a point, its not Cryptic's fault that the players are always looking for the next exploit. Even if one is there, doesn't mean the players should actually use it. You can steal something from a shop, because the shopkeeper has left it open on the window-side, doesn't mean you should...
I sort-of agree but I don't. Yes, in an ideal world, people would just report exploits instead of using them to their advantage - in an ideal world, the developers would have enough foresight to ensure these exploits aren't possible.

But Cryptic knew that players were exploiting the IOR daily with 'clickies' so they removed it, tinkered with the system a bit and replaced it with a just-as-exploitable repeatable IOR mission.

That's not unfortunate, or unexpected - it's incompentent - and to paraphrase the saying, "a fool and his Fleet Marks are easily parted"
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
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