Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,652
# 21
02-20-2013, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsupreme79 View Post
also thissler, in ur vids i see you are using a ningtao skin....how did you get that on a fleet norgh?
If you own the lowbie version (1000c points) you can select it.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,340
# 22
02-20-2013, 09:37 AM
And I'm telling you no. You need to do more work on your parsing I guess. I don't know what to say there because....

I'm telling you the only way I can account for my numbers is by taking my crit severity at the stated values.

As I have values and equations derived from the game and that by taking them and applying them in a manner consistent with all the other things in the game they just so happen to match. And you don't. Well what would you suspect. That there's some magical ability that makes mine match? Or that the game is wrong and your parses are correct?

Or that you're missing something? Really be honest now.

And really even taking your crappy numbers as a sample. By the time you hit a crit rate of ten percent, your crit d would add the same amount of damage. See because if I add in that crappy 100 points to the PREVIOUS ten crits that I expect it nets a 1000 point gain. And gee wiz your putting us at 14% crit.

And thats why those mods aren't pointless. They're darn good.

We don't need the simple probability equation but thanks for sharing with those that may not have had one. All it means is sometimes we'll see crappy strings. Sometimes we'll see great strings. It still matters how much damage you do when you get around to doing damage. Can't avoid that.


"So bottom line Crth WILL out dmg the CrtD weaponry by simply landing MORE crits... they will be 10% weaker but they will happen 20-30% more frequently... "

No. That's not sound logic or math. Those figures don't even belong together. 6% crit rate will not net you 20 to 30 percent increase in crit rate. It will net you exactly 6%.

And you absolutely CANNOT make a relative determination of those values without a start point. Can't be done. Thats nonsense.

And I honestly don't know how you get your math. North of 60%? Really? Hello but the base crit severity in the game is 50%. Crit H on weapons ONLY comes in 2% chunks. ONLY. EVER. So you would say that moving from 42% crit rate from 40% crit rate as opposed to gaining 10% crit severity is sensical? So lets say....hmm...lets say crit damage is any number. Any positve number. As a guess what would you say is the greater value 40x*.10 or 2x? Start at one and work your way up. Thats how you ACTUALLY make your comparison. Not any other way.

http://www.stattrek.com/online-calculator/binomial.aspx play with that for a bit. May help. It may not. It's like your taking the HUGE chance to get one crit and saying oh wow look at this huge chance it's boss! But yah no.

Remember it wasn't to long ago that you were counting Crit H as adding the full value of a hit as opposed to the incremental value, so I'm hesistant to appreciate your grasp on this.

I see your specifically trying to push this to a small sample size once again, and I'm telling you no. Because I'm going to play for years. I'm going to shoot for years. And I'm going to shoot a lot.

Cheers!
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,652
# 23
02-20-2013, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
I see your specifically trying to push this to a small sample size once again, and I'm telling you no. Because I'm going to play for years. I'm going to shoot for years. And I'm going to shoot a lot.

Cheers!
I do hope so. I won't argue the point any more with you we can agree to diagre on this one.. you use your CrtD single shot weapons... and I'll stick to the crth.

BTW I am talking about high rate for fire weapons only here DHC namely... and yes I run CRTHx3 and I have for a long time. My math is sound... anyone that has fought a Husanak escort knows the chances of another escort topping my in terms of DPS are pretty low... and mostly its because I choose CrtH instead of ACC for my cannons.

Your right long term large sample size... CrtD CrtH ACC they all start to look pretty much the same in terms of numbers... You been round enough to remember before Cryptic went and dmg boosted purples... and we used to fly around with white and green weapons just cause. lol
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,647
# 24
02-20-2013, 12:20 PM
i have a fleet photon, it had 1 crtD mod. its gotten several 20K+ crits, 27k is the record so far. i have a set of crtD3 mkXI DHCs sitting in the bank, been meaning to give them another look. my current acc/crtH guns pretty regularly give me 6k crits, wonder how the crtD3 guns will do
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 25
02-20-2013, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I do hope so. I won't argue the point any more with you we can agree to diagre on this one.. you use your CrtD single shot weapons... and I'll stick to the crth.

BTW I am talking about high rate for fire weapons only here DHC namely... and yes I run CRTHx3 and I have for a long time. My math is sound... anyone that has fought a Husanak escort knows the chances of another escort topping my in terms of DPS are pretty low... and mostly its because I choose CrtH instead of ACC for my cannons.

Your right long term large sample size... CrtD CrtH ACC they all start to look pretty much the same in terms of numbers... You been round enough to remember before Cryptic went and dmg boosted purples... and we used to fly around with white and green weapons just cause. lol
Actually your DPS drops when dropping Acc modifiers unless/except the situation where your target bonus defense drops rapidly. in those scenarios CrtH/D values will increase but overall Acc x3 (Unless you have all perma stun abilities on your escort? Room for that?) does highest 'DEE PEE ES' or 'Damage per second' in an average match.

So without the complicated numbers its pretty much 80+% bonus defense on any moving target with some decent traits and a spec, and acc x3 will be king. Dropping that will gain you more benefit using CrtH/D's and the lower your targets bonsu defense the more valuable/effective those mods will become.

This is very easily replicable in a controlled 1v1 with a 30 minute test run if you know how to do it.

Also don't forget that (At least according to my extensive testing) on a target with 80+% bonus defense, adding 10% acc to all your weapons will also increase your Critical Chance even more (1.5%+ on average i would say), not much but still something. Thats what people tend to forget.

I think I was one of the first guys to obtain a full Mk XI [acc]x3 (they were quite rare in the earlier days even) and I think that I woulve stepped back from using them by now after 2 years of escort flying if they werent a most favorable choice by now.

I can only think of a few builds that actually fully take advantage of those full CrtD/H weapons.

And about the 1v1's you were talking about, if an escort takes too much holds and stuff to actually bring that bonus defense down, he either doesnt have enough DPS (Chroniton mines) or Self heals (TSS, RSP, HE) to even finish the fight. Believe me.

And the last thing I wanted to mention, overall you might do a little bit more damage (spike with CrtD/H x3 in a specific time frame) overall in a 1v1 you want do enough sustained damage to keep those enemy shields buckling and once you get to do your awesome spike with your Crit weaps, the enemy still has all of his shield buffs available (RSP, TSS, etc) because the rest of the match you simply did ****ty dmg.

Last edited by darkfader1988; 02-20-2013 at 03:53 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,652
# 26
02-20-2013, 04:27 PM
Your right MT... if all you do is choose to shoot at people with 80+ defense all day ACC weapons are much better for pure numbers.... Still not spike dmg though... CrtH will still provide more spike on those targets when there buffs are down... which is the only time anyone dies anyway.

My view of ACCx3 is they are the lazy players weapons. No offense... your good because you are not a lazy target selector... honestly I think you would be more deadly if you ran Crthx3... or Acc Crthx2.... over a few matches of parsing data sure the total amount of dmg off the accx3 might be higher... but I bet the matches with the CrtH cannons will be much shorter.

Really there are 5 targets on the field... WHY are people so intent on staying on the escort with omega and evasive up ? Granted almost everyone in a good premade will have there defense up nice and high at almost all times... but for those few precious seconds when someone gets nuked / and hit with a tractor or a VM ect.... The CrtH cannons will end them in a volley.... having said that some people are fans of CrtD in those situations as well... my math says any extra crit is the best way to go, but I think at the end of the day when someone is debuffed CrtH isn't likely a ton better then the CrtD. Still its what I have ran for a long time... and anyone I have convinced to try a set of CrtHs have not dropped them. I think we all pay to much attention to raw parser numbers... there is no way to really tell from the parser data When that dmg is occuring.... hmmm that makes me think... Perhaps I need to take a log file and feed it into a spread sheet... and just track the string data, find out how often I get strings of crits with the 3 different mods.... perhaps if I have the energy this week I'll take the time to do that.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 02-20-2013 at 04:30 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 232
# 27
02-20-2013, 04:52 PM
Crit d does seem very sexy....in fact my newbie tac bop just bought a purple dbb with crt d for the bo. My dhcs are acc2 atm. Though I have achieved massive 30k crits, one completely one shotting a 100% stationary fedscort busy trying to kill a tank, I have only seen those crits twice in 2 days.....problem with crit d is that it hits hard but very infrequently, I dunno enlighten me
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,647
# 28
02-20-2013, 05:02 PM
i use crit heavy weapons on kdf cruisers and vet ships, and i'd use it on other destroyer type ships that have more diverse setups. the common escort with a COM and LTC tac, theres not the room for anything fancy, just acc weapons and tac station based damage.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
# 29
02-21-2013, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronplah78 View Post
No it doesnt make a difference what you choose so go nuts, BUT anything except plasma alone is fine. When I mean 'plasma alone' that means the weapon only does plasma damage which is not good in PvP b'cuz the majority of PvPers use ship gear, shields specifically, that have a fairly decent plasma energy type resistance. The only real exception is using plasma/disruptor hybrid weapons, where the main damage type is disruptor damage, while the extra proc it can give is the plasma DoT burn. That should answer your query.

Your welcome
Absolutely nothing wrong with plasma now, with the introduction and implementation of fleet shields plasma has become totally relevant.

@s7ike
Turkish RP Heroes
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,306
# 30
02-21-2013, 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ike View Post
Absolutely nothing wrong with plasma now, with the introduction and implementation of fleet shields plasma has become totally relevant.

@s7ike
Turkish RP Heroes
except the plasma DoT triggers the borg set and embassy console proc
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