Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 2421
02-20-2013, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourxgamer View Post
Fleet Marks:
For the life of me, I don't understand the disparity in rewards among these missions. It became clear to me early on that even though I enjoyed Fleet Alert and Fleet Defense as much as Colony Invasion, I'd be doing Colony Invasion nonstop. Do I want 22 marks or 31, gee that's a tough one. I remember early on getting -12 marks for Fleet Defense, lol.

Obviously, getting 50 marks in the foundry was salvation. I still played Colony Invasion during the event window, but I didn't have to play EVERY SINGLE WINDOW. I've probably teamed with every player on the server by now, I am that guy that jumps in the village well when we get a perfect score.
Here's a suggestion (and it took all of 5 minutes to come up with, you're welcome Cryptic!):

Every Fleet Event regardless of size (5, 10, 20), or if they are called Fleet Actions, should award a MINIMUM of 25 Fleet Marks regardless of if you succeed with the mission or not. For every completed objective stage, you get an additional 5 Fleet Marks. For the final stage of the event, you get an additional 10 Fleet Marks. For an event such as fending off the invasion fleet at your starbase, you have a minimum 25 marks, 5 marks per wave (8 waves), and an additional 10 marks for the siege group. That comes out to... 75 Fleet Marks. That's a far sight better than the current 20-30 Marks total.

Now, add to this the possibility of an additional 10-20% rewards during "Event" hour, and you got a pretty nice source of income, without making it grindy or exploitive. I'd go so far as to say that every Fleet Event regardless of it's size, could potentially have a 15-30 min cooldown. I'd also suggest a reduction to the cooldown on STFs, to 30 min as well.

Lastly, the Mirror Incursion should also award Fleet Marks, and it should ALWAYS be available. While it's a very nice source of Dilithium, i'd be fine with a 15-30 min cooldown on it, if it's always available.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 139
# 2422
02-20-2013, 10:51 AM
Dan,

Sorry to hear of your daughter being ill, I wish her a speedy recovery.

That said, i do want to ask if you say you want to make the system work for all equally, challenging but rewarding at all levels, how can you then say , however slow progress for small fleets = by design.

If you want big fleets to take more than overnight to obtain top tier, then you must want it to take until the day the game is turned off for small fleets.

but this can't be can it?

You know when Ford Replaces a warrantied defective part it's not months after they remove the part that you get a new part and your car back, they do a stopgap measure or put you in a loaner or pay for your rental while you wait depending on the severity of the down time.

perhaps temporarily wrapping the current fleet content and fleet actions or atleast the daily with half of what you took away would workout better?

Formerly Jewkesman Member from Nov 2009! :smile:
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 104
# 2423
02-20-2013, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by theincredible33 View Post
This may be the most commented thread, but it's pretty much the same people posting over and over I wonder how many individuals have actually posted. Personally, I'm not upset because I wasn't exploiting the rewards so never gained a dependency on them.
I'm compiling exactly those statistics now for the benefit of the community and Cryptic.

The majority of posts in this huge thread are overwhelmingly against the change. And believe me, this does affect you, because if Cryptic are left unaccountable for this - something that's angered a large number of the forum community, what makes you think they'll care when they finally do something that does affect you?

Nobody here is saying the Fleet Marks should have stayed on Foundry missions, nobody here is disagreeing that these things were being 'exploited' - what they're saying is that you don't remove the single largest source of [a currency] from an MMO without having any immediate plans to restore the balance in some way.

Some of us played IOR maybe once or twice a day - and played story content too - not grinders - that got us 700 FMs a week - those are gone now. There's no adequate excuse for that.
One extra node for your metrics, should be the number of new posters who have made their first post because of this issue. That in itself shows us that some of the silent majority have decided to speak up on this, even the poster of the first quote is making his first post and his account is not a new one...

(not picking on you theincredible33, just illustrating a trend and possible metric node.)
HOMO SAPIENS NON URINAT IN VENTUM


=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 2424
02-20-2013, 11:05 AM
You guys are wasting your breath, so to speak.

They won't do what you ask, they will only do what they believe will keep players in STO long enough for the next ship, for the next "Season" for the next big money maker. That's what they're about now.

You guys keep screaming for more ways to make fleet marks. Sure, they may do it. But it'll come at a price. Most likely, upping the amount of marks required for the projects so that the percentage of marks gained still balances out their long term projections of how long it takes to get to Tier 5.

So getting 15 marks in Fleet Alerts now, and increasing them to 30 (Just estimating, using a 2x modifier here), and suddenly the projects cost twice as much in fleet marks because "After reviewing the amount of fleet marks that are potentially available to the player base, we feel that the projects require an increase in the amount of marks that are needed to complete" or some other corporate blindsiding speak. Allows them to appease the player base, shut them up, while at the same time, not jeopardizing their projections and spreadsheets.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But I'm almost certainly right on this one.

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 2425
02-20-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
But that does raise a point, its not Cryptic's fault that the players are always looking for the next exploit. Even if one is there, doesn't mean the players should actually use it. You can steal something from a shop, because the shopkeeper has left it open on the window-side, doesn't mean you should...
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
I sort-of agree but I don't. Yes, in an ideal world, people would just report exploits instead of using them to their advantage - in an ideal world, the developers would have enough foresight to ensure these exploits aren't possible.

But Cryptic knew that players were exploiting the IOR daily with 'clickies' so they removed it, tinkered with the system a bit and replaced it with a just-as-exploitable repeatable IOR mission.

That's not unfortunate, or unexpected - it's incompentent - and to paraphrase the saying, "a fool and his Fleet Marks are easily parted"
Unlike Weyland

I totally disagree

These are not exploits. They are fixes when people learn that the Foundry "exploit" was a natural result not of player greed or players being malicious but down to the simple fact that Cryptic got the balance wrong. This is Cryptics fault. To use your terrible analogy about stealing from a shop, what if the person is forced to do so because they are starving?

Yes exactly the system that Cryptic put in place gives pathetic amounts of FM's and you have to grind some of the crappiest content in the game to get your piddling FM stipend. The result was both natural and justifiable, people found a way to fix the imbalance between inputs and outputs that Cryptic created and were right to do so. We fixed their broken system.

You see in a legit MMO the systems would be Q&A, stress and balanced tested by both community QA & an actual employed and paid Q&A division. Not so here so we get systems and economies foistered on us that make the game poor and unbalanced.

It's got nothing to do with the players, the entire problem is down to Cryptic.

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 02-20-2013 at 11:24 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,470
# 2426
02-20-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daiouvegeta2 View Post
You guys are wasting your breath, so to speak.

They won't do what you ask, they will only do what they believe will keep players in STO long enough for the next ship, for the next "Season" for the next big money maker. That's what they're about now.

You guys keep screaming for more ways to make fleet marks. Sure, they may do it. But it'll come at a price. Most likely, upping the amount of marks required for the projects so that the percentage of marks gained still balances out their long term projections of how long it takes to get to Tier 5.

So getting 15 marks in Fleet Alerts now, and increasing them to 30 (Just estimating, using a 2x modifier here), and suddenly the projects cost twice as much in fleet marks because "After reviewing the amount of fleet marks that are potentially available to the player base, we feel that the projects require an increase in the amount of marks that are needed to complete" or some other corporate blindsiding speak. Allows them to appease the player base, shut them up, while at the same time, not jeopardizing their projections and spreadsheets.
There is one thing I would like to say to you regarding this. To you and all of those who share your "conviction" that this is hopeless. It is a very short, very simple saying that many of you people on here may be familiar with.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

If we sit and do nothing, we definitely get shafted. If we kick up a big enough stink, we might not get shafted. There is a chance that even if we do kick up the biggest stink we can, it might not be enough and nothing happens other than a "Yeah, sure whatever" response coming our way again.
But I certainly don't like being shafted especially when there is a chance that we might just be able to get something done about it, so I know which option I have picked!
We have the tools to at least make ourselves heard. We have large number of extremely intelligent and capable individuals who are all united in their displeasure with what has happened recently. I don't want to stand, but I feel I must. It is only fair on the wider community for us as a group to stand up and make damn well sure that we don't like how we have been treated.

What about you? Do you like how you have been treated? You are a member of this community after all.

Quote:
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But I'm almost certainly right on this one.
Forgive the ad-hominem, but how arrogant!
There was a sig here, but I gave up. Thanks {REDACTED}

Last edited by captainoblivous; 02-20-2013 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Typo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 104
# 2427
02-20-2013, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
I have forgotten nothing. I was never concerned with how long fleet holding progression takes. They can design their systems however they will. We have a choice as to whether or not to partake in those systems' gameplay.

If they want fleet holding progression to ignore small fleets, then so be it. The small fleet has three choices:

1 - Grow their fleet with enough active members to more efficiently manage the amount of fleet marks and dilithium needed to progress.

2 - Play it as it is and keep complaining about how hard it is to progress because the Fleet Mark payouts are not good enough.

3 - Don't play it at all.

I am not saying that this is how it should be. I believe in fair content progression for everyone. If they were to refer to fleets with 25 members or less a "squadron" and introduce squadron holdings that are smaller installations but can provide useful things for a more open-ended endgame, and these holdings were balanced for five to 25 players the way fleet holdings are balanced for 25 players and up, then the gap will be closed. Squadrons could still pursue the starbase with its current extreme difficulty of progression. But fleets would not be allowed to pursue Squadron Holdings as they would pose no challenge whatsoever.

I have also suggested a method that could be used to scale Starbase advancement requirements for fleet size, but I do not feel like reiterating it here and now. Suffice to say that it IS possible to do this without setting up an exploit.
For the last few days I've been working on a similar idea of grouping, from squadrons through battlegroups, fleets, flag fleets and sector fleets, with a workable progression and holdings system. I'm hacking it around and looking for exploit potential atm. I'll post it here, if I get it complete before this thread does the big one.

Maybe we should knock-heads?
HOMO SAPIENS NON URINAT IN VENTUM


=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 623
# 2428
02-20-2013, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daiouvegeta2 View Post
You guys are wasting your breath, so to speak.

They won't do what you ask, they will only do what they believe will keep players in STO long enough for the next ship, for the next "Season" for the next big money maker. That's what they're about now.

You guys keep screaming for more ways to make fleet marks. Sure, they may do it. But it'll come at a price. Most likely, upping the amount of marks required for the projects so that the percentage of marks gained still balances out their long term projections of how long it takes to get to Tier 5.

So getting 15 marks in Fleet Alerts now, and increasing them to 30 (Just estimating, using a 2x modifier here), and suddenly the projects cost twice as much in fleet marks because "After reviewing the amount of fleet marks that are potentially available to the player base, we feel that the projects require an increase in the amount of marks that are needed to complete" or some other corporate blindsiding speak. Allows them to appease the player base, shut them up, while at the same time, not jeopardizing their projections and spreadsheets.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But I'm almost certainly right on this one.

For the bajillionith time, it's not just about the fleet marks. The fleet marks are just the tip of the iceberg.
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,470
# 2429
02-20-2013, 11:25 AM
Wait, Vegeta again? IF that is the same guy, then surely he must realise that having multiple accounts is against forum rules?
There was a sig here, but I gave up. Thanks {REDACTED}
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 2430
02-20-2013, 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordagamemnonb5 View Post
For the bajillionith time, it's not just about the fleet marks. The fleet marks are just the tip of the iceberg.
Someone needs to refer him to post 2311
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