Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 118
# 1 The New Andorian Escorts...
02-20-2013, 06:44 AM
Maybe it is just me...but to me these new Fed escorts look somewhat like modified KDF vessels -- almost a cross between a Raptor and a BoP.

I have not seen the Enterprise episode that has these vessels...so I can only assume that they are accurate depictions of Andorian vessels...which is my way of saying that the ship design team likely did not have a lot of leeway in designing exactly how these vessels are supposed to look...

But...to be honest...these do not look remotely like "Starfleet."

Ah well. Now the Feds can fly something that looks -- almost -- like a KDF vessel. Put a cloak on those puppies...and then they can REALLY be faux Klingons!

Hmm...I wonder if that might be a secret, hidden desire of the Fed playerbase...a taboo thought that haunts thier waking moments, and stalks their dreams...like the Riker episode where he actually captained a Klingon warship for a short period of time...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 507
# 2
02-20-2013, 06:51 AM
I do not see any similarity between the Andorian Escorts and Klingon Raptors

This is a Klingon Raptor piloted by a KDF player.

This is an Andorian Escort piloted by a Fed player.

It's hard to spot the similarity.
KDF Future with Cryptic. Fact.

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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 3
02-20-2013, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ztempest View Post
But...to be honest...these do not look remotely like "Starfleet."
Because the design that the ships are based on predates the Federation. It may actually predate Starfleet itself, but since there's no solid date that I could find for the founding of Starfleet (somewhere between the late 2070s and the mid 2140s) that point is debatable.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 4
02-20-2013, 06:57 AM
The depiction based on the pics in the blog is pretty accurate.
The Andorian Battlecruiser from the shows looks very similar, it was just a blueish grey instead.

You can see a whole bunch of images from the show here:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Andorian_battle_cruiser

To be fair, it was noted in the STOwiki before that some of the Raptor variants we get have quite few details with the Andorian ship in common.
So it's actually a bit of a reverse of what you describe.

Anyway IMO the new 5/2 setup opens up new possibilities for us in the future.
Maybe it's what the K'vort will have one day.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 118
# 5
02-20-2013, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitzh View Post
I do not see any similarity between the Andorian Escorts and Klingon Raptors

This is a Klingon Raptor piloted by a KDF player.

This is an Andorian Escort piloted by a Fed player.

It's hard to spot the similarity.

This is hilarious. Thank you! I appreciated this humor.

To other replies -- all true I guess. I just sort of figured that if you are Federation, you will want to play a vessel that..well...LOOKS like a federation vessel. You know...the Saucer design with the warp nacelles....

As far as Andorian designs influencing Klingon ship designs...I would have to research that. If I recall correctly, the Klingon BoP design pre-dates Archer's Enterprise by quite a bit...didn't Archer steal tech from the Klingons in one episode? The Photon Torp? I seem to recall a Klingon vessel in distress...and Archer exploited the situation to obtain a new weapon for the nascent Federation...but that is probably just a biased version of what really happened...my memory is a bit hazy...and I did not catch all of the Enterprise episodes....
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 6
02-20-2013, 07:18 AM
The episode you're looking for is called "Sleeping Dogs" and there's no hint Archer or his people manage to get much out of the Klingon Raptor.
Only the name "Photon Torpedo" is mentioned but it's not really revealed whether the party onboard the ship gets any technical data on them.

There's also no clear-cut canon indication the Andorians actually influenced the Klingons, but it's more likely the model designer who made the Qin Raptor "borrowed" a few details from the Andorian ship.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 460
# 7
02-20-2013, 09:52 PM
Didn't the Klingons copy the BoP from Romulans? Plus they've taken whole the Kar'fi from the Feklri, the Flight Deck Cruisers, Fleet Support Vessels from the Gorn, and Destroyers from the Nausicaans. I believe the Klingon Empire now builds these vessels.

And to a lesser extention they pillage Jem'hadar Dreadnaught Carrier, Jem'hadar Heavy Escort Carrier, Chet Warship, Galor Cruiser, Ferengi Maurader, Tholian Orb Weaver, Tholian Recluse.

So I figure its entirely possible the Raptor is influenced by the Andorians.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 317
# 8
02-20-2013, 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgyor View Post
Didn't the Klingons copy the BoP from Romulans? .
Similar names.. different designs.

And somewhere along the line, the Klingons sold battlecrusers (D5/D7... not sure which) to the rommies in exchange for cloaking tech,
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,836
# 9
02-21-2013, 01:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ztempest View Post
Maybe it is just me...but to me these new Fed escorts look somewhat like modified KDF vessels -- almost a cross between a Raptor and a BoP.

But...to be honest...these do not look remotely like "Starfleet."
They aren't. That's why they'll have the IGV & IGS prefixes availible to them.
So the next time Franklin Drake pays me a visit, he'll be wellcomed into the interrogation chamber of the Andorian Mining Consortium muhahaha

Oh and yes, not talking cannon, but STO in particular - the KDF raptors we have have many elements borrowed and inspired from the original Andorian Kumari Battlecruiser. So it's not a Klingony ship, it's a modern remake of an older design.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 10
02-21-2013, 02:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgyor View Post
Didn't the Klingons copy the BoP from Romulans?
That's a difficult question.

Back when Star Trek 3 was made, the Romulans were originally intended to be the villains.
And they had been using a "Bird of Prey", a ship with forward-swept wings and a plasma energy weapon before.
Appearently at some point it was decided that it was too expensive to make new costumes for the Romulans and instead re-use the Klingon uniforms that had been made for the first movie.
An earlier draft of the script supposedly still included a line about Kruge stealing a Romulan ship that didn't make it into the movie.
So for a long time it was speculated the Klingons somehow got the Bird of Prey design from the Romulans.
This was also part of the backstory for this ship as published in the 1980's material by FASA.

Then there is "Enterprise", which was made by Berman and Braga.
Berman once said in an interview that he didn't care for any Star Trek material that had been made before he came along
And Braga said he didn't care for continuity when he could tell a good story *cough* "Threshold", "A Night in Sickbay", "These are the Voyages" *cough*.

Anyway "Enterprise" gave us a Romulan Bird of Prey that looks like a 24th century refit of the one in TOS (including the cloaking device that was totally unnown in TOS).
It also gave us a D5 that has the typical TNG era Klingon green and a 22nd century Klingon Bird of Prey.
It also gave us "Phase Cannons" even though the first TOS Pilot "The Cage" had established that a century later Starfleet was using lasers.

So it's a question of whether you like to include all the anachronisms and contradictions "Enterprise" gave us into the answer or not.
If you do, then it's a clear "no", if you don't it's a clear "maybe".
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