Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 62
# 11
02-20-2013, 09:07 AM
It never matters...they edit out ten different types of currency only to slowly replace them all with new types of currency. The designers just don't have any good ideas about how to control the evolution of content without using currencies. They should scrap everything in favor of dilithium and latinum and throw away everything from skill points to data samples. A single currency and a single expense allocation.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 150
# 12
02-20-2013, 10:13 AM
Sadly they can't be combined. If they were, then there would be two key attributes for determining which missions players choose in order to earn marks: Fun and Efficiency.

Since most missions fail the "Fun" standard, then players would just play the most Efficient missions over and over again. Queues for STFs or other difficult content may sit empty forever.

The separate Mark system is a way of directing player attention that removes fun, and efficiency to an extent, from the equation.
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Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 20
# 13
02-20-2013, 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Considering one of the original stated purposes of dilithium was to get rid of ten different types of currencies, there shouldn't even be different kinds of marks.

Convert all mark costs to reasonable dilithium equivalents. Remove daily refinement cap. Problem solved, players can now play what they like and make progress where they like without being pigeonholed.
I distinctly remember this as well. We now have almost as many currencies again as the move to Dillithium was supposed to remove!
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 185
# 14
02-20-2013, 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reptilesbladex View Post
I distinctly remember this as well. We now have almost as many currencies again as the move to Dillithium was supposed to remove!
While this comment can be appreciated for pointing out that Dilithium was intended to cut down on currencies, we do not view Fleet Marks in this way.

One of our primary goals in reducing currencies was in reducing the types of currencies needed to purchase gear - so that gear could have standardized pricing no matter where it comes from.

Marks could have been a progress bar, but we felt it was more interesting if instead of a progress bar generically ticking up, it was points that you could spend where you see fit.

It doesn't refute the initial complaint about currencies, but it does illustrate that Marks are designed to represent effort against specific obstacles. It is part of a reputation system design that you earn reputation with a faction by doing things they like to do. That reputation is quite often literally just a number. Games find different ways to display this number. Sometimes it is a heart. Sometimes it is a progress bar. In STO it is a value that you assign.

We aren't above changing it or altering the design to be more asthetically pleasing, but the point of reputation system is to gain rep by doing things a faction wants you to do - which in most cases is a story or fictional based type of gameplay meant to represent your skill versus specific challenges.

If we were to make Marks universal, then we wouldn't have a reputation system and instead more like another form of skillpoints (which isn't a bad idea either).

However, STO is a story based game and so we will continue to use Reputation to represent a player's skill against specific challenges. This will become the basis of new and interesting challenges in Seasons to come and is part of our overall end game design.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,998
# 15
02-20-2013, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
While this comment can be appreciated for pointing out that Dilithium was intended to cut down on currencies, we do not view Fleet Marks in this way.

One of our primary goals in reducing currencies was in reducing the types of currencies needed to purchase gear - so that gear could have standardized pricing no matter where it comes from.

Marks could have been a progress bar, but we felt it was more interesting if instead of a progress bar generically ticking up, it was points that you could spend where you see fit.

It doesn't refute the initial complaint about currencies, but it does illustrate that Marks are designed to represent effort against specific obstacles. It is part of a reputation system design that you earn reputation with a faction by doing things they like to do. That reputation is quite often literally just a number. Games find different ways to display this number. Sometimes it is a heart. Sometimes it is a progress bar. In STO it is a value that you assign.

We aren't above changing it or altering the design to be more asthetically pleasing, but the point of reputation system is to gain rep by doing things a faction wants you to do - which in most cases is a story or fictional based type of gameplay meant to represent your skill versus specific challenges.

If we were to make Marks universal, then we wouldn't have a reputation system and instead more like another form of skillpoints (which isn't a bad idea either).

However, STO is a story based game and so we will continue to use Reputation to represent a player's skill against specific challenges. This will become the basis of new and interesting challenges in Seasons to come and is part of our overall end game design.
I would agree with you, but seeing as Marks are used to purchase gear, this description kind of falls apart.

But... seeing as there isn't much point to marks outside of dilithium once you reach T5 reputation I can see the point to using them as currency. So I think it would go over better if only the endgame sets used marks and the Mk X-XI gear did not.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,231
# 16
02-20-2013, 09:34 PM
I don't agree, and it makes perfect sense to have different Reputation Marks. Combining them would defeat the whole Rep system purpose. I could just grind the Romulan marks all day and pick-up all the Omega/Borg gear. I only work on the Rep system for the Passive Skills anyway.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 435
# 17
02-20-2013, 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
I would agree with you, but seeing as Marks are used to purchase gear, this description kind of falls apart.

But... seeing as there isn't much point to marks outside of dilithium once you reach T5 reputation I can see the point to using them as currency. So I think it would go over better if only the endgame sets used marks and the Mk X-XI gear did not.
Technically, the only marks that we actually use to buy stuff are the marks used to unlock stuff in the omega and romulan reputations, respectively.

Fleet marks on the other hand are converted from marks to credits, which we do use to buy gear.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 18
02-20-2013, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegeta50024 View Post
Technically, the only marks that we actually use to buy stuff are the marks used to unlock stuff in the omega and romulan reputations, respectively.

Fleet marks on the other hand are converted from marks to credits, which we do use to buy gear.
I will say that my preference there would be to eliminate the marks from those activities and have a two fold system.

1) Timed projects, which directly award rep but take 19+ hours.

2) Repeatable activities. (And I'd favor bringing New Romulus activities around to being endlessly repeatable but provide fewer rewards after the first time you do them each day.)

Say you currently get 5000 Romulan rep a week for 200 marks and 2 hours spent doing Romulan activities and 300k EC in commodities. (Just a guess.)

So why not just cut the marks from the projects, cut their rep rewards by 50% and make the first two hours worth of activities on NR award 300 rep per 15 minute mission and then award 5 rep a piece after you've earned 2500 in rep from missions for the week?

I'm a bigger fan of direct rep, I guess.

From there, I'd probably make the only pre-req for rep projects be getting the reputation needed and spending the dilithium/EC/commodities but maybe have some sort of "free rep item token" drop in STFs or New Romulus as appropriate to keep people going back.

It's funny to me though how people refer to NR as a grind when there's no real incentive to farm it. You do your dailies but there's no point after that.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 19
02-21-2013, 12:41 AM
As long as it doesn't take inventory space (like the borg neural processors do), it's fine. But i really don't like having to keep all these collectible items because inventory space is expensive and very limited, even for lifers.

I don't mind having 10-15 different currencies as long as it makes sense and goes into the assets tab.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,121
# 20
02-21-2013, 06:15 AM
I believe the design idea here is good, you should earn credit with specific factions for doing that faction content. The problem is that dilithium isn't used to purchase gear so much as more marks are. Take a look at the ground gear, and if you want to outfit your Boffs with ground gear the amount of mark grinding is just.. beyond reason, 1500 marks is a lot of work per Boff, 27k dil is reasonable for ground gear/set but the marks take a very long time.
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