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Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 289
# 21
02-21-2013, 02:37 PM
I bought the 3 pack and Equiped all 3 consoles onto the Tac Varient, my commander Tac is running: TT1, THY2,BO3,CRF3, The LT Cmdr: TT!, CSV2, APO, and on the LT: TT1, CRF1. I then decided to do a Starbase 24 for a test run, I equiped 2 Phaser DHC, the Andorian Cannons, a DBB and a quant torp, and beacuse of the cooldown my cannons were pretty much useless as I was on a cooldown non stop when using the console abilities, so as it sits your better off not using the consoles and just slapping on 4 DHC's and a beam or torp and 2 turrets in the back and running it like a normal escourt. The handicapp from the consoles on your cannon cooldowns is to much to make them useful. I removed the consoles and ran a standard escourt build and it did much, much better. So unless they fix this, the ships run better without the consoles. And buying the pack like I did, as it is now, a big rip-off.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 649
# 22
02-21-2013, 02:56 PM
I understand a shared cool down but there are so few cannon based tactical skills that killing my 2 rapid fires and 1 spread makes the whole purpose of the ship moot. The other way to get this fixed is give us more tactical skills for cannon (this is my preference). Say a target subsystem on this thing or something, it can have a big cool down, but could be a nice addition to a very sparse Boff ability tree. An all cannon boat in PvP will run TTx2, waste an ensign slot, 2 attack patterns, 3 cannon skills (1-2 rapid and spread), and what else. Couple that with the cool down and your tac captain still doesn't have a ship they can say is hands down over other possibilities.

Granted you can through a dual beam and BO but that drains power and the thing needs all the eng and sci powers it can spare for heal and sustainment.

That is awfully ranty, but really I don't know if putting a torpedo on this thing would do more damage than my all cannon/turret fleet escort when you dilute the skill tree with projectile damage points.

It definitely has its perks and drawbacks, I am just not seeing it being worth the 5k zen and better than the fleet escort options with the current availability of Boff abilities and weapons.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 201
# 23
02-21-2013, 03:02 PM
To be clear, these currently *are* intended to have a shared cooldown with Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Spread Volley.

These console powers are very potent, especially with the three piece set bonus. During internal testing, we tried it without putting them on the cannon shared cooldown. We found that rotating from Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload provided an extraordinarily high amount of burst.

We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

We could have put a long shared cooldown (say, 60 seconds) between Tachyon Burst and Overload, but this would have cut down the incentive to have those two consoles equipped at the same time significantly.

We also could have decreased the power of the individual abilities rather than making them share the cannon cooldown - and I did test it out that way internally - but it wasn't as satisfying.

We're still examining this further, but we would prefer to release a ship console a little "weak" and buff it later than release it in too powerful of a state and have to nerf it at a later time.

Again, we're going to keep testing this internally further, and we'll listen to player feedback. We do read these forums on a regular basis, we just don't always have a chance to reply to every thread (either because we're too busy fixing or implementing things, or because we don't want to make a statement about something that's still in flux and may change).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 258
# 24
02-21-2013, 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To be clear, these currently *are* intended to have a shared cooldown with Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Spread Volley.

These console powers are very potent, especially with the three piece set bonus. During internal testing, we tried it without putting them on the cannon shared cooldown. We found that rotating from Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload provided an extraordinarily high amount of burst.

We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

We could have put a long shared cooldown (say, 60 seconds) between Tachyon Burst and Overload, but this would have cut down the incentive to have those two consoles equipped at the same time significantly.

We also could have decreased the power of the individual abilities rather than making them share the cannon cooldown - and I did test it out that way internally - but it wasn't as satisfying.

We're still examining this further, but we would prefer to release a ship console a little "weak" and buff it later than release it in too powerful of a state and have to nerf it at a later time.

Again, we're going to keep testing this internally further, and we'll listen to player feedback. We do read these forums on a regular basis, we just don't always have a chance to reply to every thread (either because we're too busy fixing or implementing things, or because we don't want to make a statement about something that's still in flux and may change).
Thank you for all of the prompt feedback regarding the various issues with the Kumari escorts, archon. As it stands, it seems like having the cannon consoles share cooldowns with cannon abilities disincentivizes the use of both consoles as well - you're giving up the use of your Tac BOff abilities, which affect all of your forward weapons (in a lot of cases, anyway), for the use of two special abilities which have their own drawbacks. Hopefully testing will bear out an alternate solution to keep these abilities interesting and provide incentive to actually equip them.

Thanks again!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 649
# 25
02-21-2013, 03:16 PM
In a dps centric game a really good escort like the ship they made here, is running the risk of being OP or just another escort. I feel very strongly that the fleet patrol escort is a great ship and to beat it out for anything other than a warm fuzzy of trying something new, would take a very fine tuned approach.

I totally agree that putting the ship out there weaker and bringing it up is more desirable approach and well thought out. At least you bought something at a base line and it can only be improved. If it is improved then others can get it, but no one would be reasonably dissatisfied.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 481
# 26
02-21-2013, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To be clear, these currently *are* intended to have a shared cooldown with Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Spread Volley.

These console powers are very potent, especially with the three piece set bonus. During internal testing, we tried it without putting them on the cannon shared cooldown. We found that rotating from Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload provided an extraordinarily high amount of burst.

We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

We could have put a long shared cooldown (say, 60 seconds) between Tachyon Burst and Overload, but this would have cut down the incentive to have those two consoles equipped at the same time significantly.

We also could have decreased the power of the individual abilities rather than making them share the cannon cooldown - and I did test it out that way internally - but it wasn't as satisfying.

We're still examining this further, but we would prefer to release a ship console a little "weak" and buff it later than release it in too powerful of a state and have to nerf it at a later time.

Again, we're going to keep testing this internally further, and we'll listen to player feedback. We do read these forums on a regular basis, we just don't always have a chance to reply to every thread (either because we're too busy fixing or implementing things, or because we don't want to make a statement about something that's still in flux and may change).
This is the kind of information you should disclose BEFORE releasing a ship or atleast on the ship's description page. As it stands I wasted $50 on a ship set that is now completely worthless to me. There is no way I am going to use the console set if it puts my rapid fire and scatter volley on cooldown, there is no way the console abilities make up for the bonus dps of either scatter or rapid fire, and they take up console space that could be better used for something else.

While a Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload might be to much damage i don't see how Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire would be a game breaking attack, especially with the charge up before you can fire the tachyon burst. By the ingame stats it does a little over 3000 damage per shield, thats maybe 1 volley of cannon fire worth. A 30 second shared cooldown between Tachyon Burst and Overload would be a much better solution than the current global cooldown.

Last edited by john98837; 02-21-2013 at 03:32 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 289
# 27
02-21-2013, 03:32 PM
Thanks for looking into it. But as it sits now. Buying the 3 pack and running the 3 console set is less powerful than just running a standard escourt build. You do more DPS not using the consoles. So i dont know what the solution is but I know you want people to buy the Bundle and use the 3 console set. So right now i'm sorry to say that for you people that want the ship now, to just buy one, not the bundle. But for others that do want all 3 like I did, Wait and see what next week brings. If i were Dan I would leave the overload chain in. If you want to sell 3 pack bundles of this ship then having 1 OP ability is not going to break the game and it will sell Bundles like crack. If players know that if they buy all 3 that they will get some kind of "super attack" they will be whipping out the credit card faster than a cruiser capt can scream "nurf escourts"

Last edited by admgreer; 02-21-2013 at 03:39 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 28
02-21-2013, 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To be clear, these currently *are* intended to have a shared cooldown with Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Spread Volley.

These console powers are very potent, especially with the three piece set bonus. During internal testing, we tried it without putting them on the cannon shared cooldown. We found that rotating from Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload provided an extraordinarily high amount of burst.

We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

We could have put a long shared cooldown (say, 60 seconds) between Tachyon Burst and Overload, but this would have cut down the incentive to have those two consoles equipped at the same time significantly.

We also could have decreased the power of the individual abilities rather than making them share the cannon cooldown - and I did test it out that way internally - but it wasn't as satisfying.

We're still examining this further, but we would prefer to release a ship console a little "weak" and buff it later than release it in too powerful of a state and have to nerf it at a later time.

Again, we're going to keep testing this internally further, and we'll listen to player feedback. We do read these forums on a regular basis, we just don't always have a chance to reply to every thread (either because we're too busy fixing or implementing things, or because we don't want to make a statement about something that's still in flux and may change).
As long as you don't make other ships look inferior (especially KDF ones since you don't like releaseing kdf escorts), and as long as it doesn't break other player's experience in STFs (because i don't want someone to do all the job) it's fine. But if you buff those cannons without any counterpart then you better raise the stats of all existing ships and NPCs. The result would be the same but with 20 times more work for you.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 29
02-21-2013, 04:29 PM
thx for posting save me 50 dollars lol
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 25
# 30
02-21-2013, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To be clear, these currently *are* intended to have a shared cooldown with Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Spread Volley.

These console powers are very potent, especially with the three piece set bonus. During internal testing, we tried it without putting them on the cannon shared cooldown. We found that rotating from Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload provided an extraordinarily high amount of burst.

We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

We could have put a long shared cooldown (say, 60 seconds) between Tachyon Burst and Overload, but this would have cut down the incentive to have those two consoles equipped at the same time significantly.

We also could have decreased the power of the individual abilities rather than making them share the cannon cooldown - and I did test it out that way internally - but it wasn't as satisfying.

We're still examining this further, but we would prefer to release a ship console a little "weak" and buff it later than release it in too powerful of a state and have to nerf it at a later time.

Again, we're going to keep testing this internally further, and we'll listen to player feedback. We do read these forums on a regular basis, we just don't always have a chance to reply to every thread (either because we're too busy fixing or implementing things, or because we don't want to make a statement about something that's still in flux and may change).
I hate to have to post this.

If this was intentional, it should have been put in the ship notes. Having to choose between using either the cannon abilities OR your tactical abilities makes a big difference.

This is incredibly close to false advertising. I don't need to elaborate as to why.

I would say for anyone who purchased the 3 pack, they should be given the option of choosing one pack and having the extra 2500 zen refunded. At this point, for both pvp and pve, you cannot use the specials and be at all as successful as you would be running standard gear.

I purchased the Ody 3 pack for the consoles. I purchased the Borta's 3 pack for the consoles. I purchased the Kumari 3 pack for the consoles. If they are not working AS ADVERTISED, I expect a refund of 2500 zen, and the choice of just one of the ships.

Thank you.
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