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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 49
# 31
02-21-2013, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To be clear, these currently *are* intended to have a shared cooldown with Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Spread Volley.

These console powers are very potent, especially with the three piece set bonus. During internal testing, we tried it without putting them on the cannon shared cooldown. We found that rotating from Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload provided an extraordinarily high amount of burst.

We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

We could have put a long shared cooldown (say, 60 seconds) between Tachyon Burst and Overload, but this would have cut down the incentive to have those two consoles equipped at the same time significantly.

We also could have decreased the power of the individual abilities rather than making them share the cannon cooldown - and I did test it out that way internally - but it wasn't as satisfying.

We're still examining this further, but we would prefer to release a ship console a little "weak" and buff it later than release it in too powerful of a state and have to nerf it at a later time.

Again, we're going to keep testing this internally further, and we'll listen to player feedback. We do read these forums on a regular basis, we just don't always have a chance to reply to every thread (either because we're too busy fixing or implementing things, or because we don't want to make a statement about something that's still in flux and may change).
Thanks for the response and clearing that up!

Where as I can understand chaining these abilities together can give too much burst damage, the linked GCD between BOFF cannon abilities and the console's abilities just seem a little extreme. Currently, it is faster to just not use them, in example, Elite Khitomer Space stf, with probes. Just using one of the console abilities itself won't punch down a group of probes as well as just using the C:SV boff ability. You'd actually be hurting yourself, because suddenly you're auto attacking for the next 15 seconds. At the moment, the only way around this would be to Que up the actual ability itself since its more similiar to a torpedo ability, lasting 30 seconds til used. And Queing it up 15 seconds ahead of time to use it, then switch to cannon BOFF abilities.

Personally, I would think a shared GCD of say 30 - 45 seconds or so between the console abilities, or even higher, would let players keep the rather unique feel of the unique abilities these ships can have, and still not break the game with too high of burst since it would have a longer GCD than the boff cannon abilities would by themselves.

Though, this post now seems like it'd be better in suggesstions. lol
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by vangreal View Post
I hate to have to post this.

If this was intentional, it should have been put in the ship notes. Having to choose between using either the cannon abilities OR your tactical abilities makes a big difference.

This is incredibly close to false advertising. I don't need to elaborate as to why.

I would say for anyone who purchased the 3 pack, they should be given the option of choosing one pack and having the extra 2500 zen refunded. At this point, for both pvp and pve, you cannot use the specials and be at all as successful as you would be running standard gear.

I purchased the Ody 3 pack for the consoles. I purchased the Borta's 3 pack for the consoles. I purchased the Kumari 3 pack for the consoles. If they are not working AS ADVERTISED, I expect a refund of 2500 zen, and the choice of just one of the ships.

Thank you.
I actually agree with the above poster. And some may very righteously point out the following statement on the ship spec page: "NOTE: The above stats for all ships are subject to change." and the expectation that things change on a game.

Yes I must agree STO does not HAVE to make any amends on this situation, however that does not mean that they can't or shouldn't. Any kind of shared cool down should have been public knowledge and at the least an apology would be appropriate for not including that in the initial ship specs.

I have not purchased this ship and I would never purchase anything till it has been out a few weeks. I am very cautious and untrusting buyer, and want to be sure I know exactly what I am getting. I make salesmen very frustrated. It would be wise to consider this as a business decision to not make all purchasers of new ships so hesitant and conservative.

Since my first posting on this page many in zone chat and in my fleet have similar frustrations. Most are probably short term buyers remorse, but this will have an impact.

Last edited by milanvorius; 02-21-2013 at 04:57 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 45
# 33
02-21-2013, 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milanvorius View Post
I actually agree with the above poster. And some may very righteously point out the following statement on the ship spec page: "NOTE: The above stats for all ships are subject to change." and the expectation that things change on a game.

Yes I must agree STO does not HAVE to make any amends on this situation, however that does not mean that they can't or shouldn't.

I have not purchased this ship and I would never purchase anything till it has been out a few weeks. I am very cautious and untrusting buyer, and want to be sure I know exactly what I am getting. I make salesmen very frustrated. It would be wise to consider this as a business decision to not make all purchasers of new ships so hesitant and conservative.

Since my first posting on this page many in zone chat and in my fleet have similar frustrations. Most are probably short term buyers remorse, but this will have an impact.
Just before they can change this on the webpage, here is the description of what the cannon set bonus was SUPPOSED to provide.

"Console Set

The Tachyon Induction Relay, Wing Cannon Platforms, and Phaser Dispersal Array can be equipped on any Andorian Escort. Together, they are the Andorian Assault Set.

The two-piece set bonus grants Synchronized Targeting, a passive bonus to Accuracy.

The three-piece set bonus is Wing Cannon Synergy. This allows the player?s deployed Wing Cannon Platforms to benefit from the player?s special cannon abilities such as Cannon: Rapid Fire, Cannon: Scatter Volley, and the special attacks provided by the Tachyon Induction Relay and Phaser Dispersal Array consoles.
"

It would seem that instead of BENEFITing from the abilities, they are infact locking you out of them.

Thought I would post that before they can say that never happened. Proof is a good thing.
This is the link it was from http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=821871
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 825
# 34
02-21-2013, 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To be clear, these currently *are* intended to have a shared cooldown with Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Spread Volley.

These console powers are very potent, especially with the three piece set bonus. During internal testing, we tried it without putting them on the cannon shared cooldown. We found that rotating from Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload provided an extraordinarily high amount of burst.

We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

We could have put a long shared cooldown (say, 60 seconds) between Tachyon Burst and Overload, but this would have cut down the incentive to have those two consoles equipped at the same time significantly.

We also could have decreased the power of the individual abilities rather than making them share the cannon cooldown - and I did test it out that way internally - but it wasn't as satisfying.

We're still examining this further, but we would prefer to release a ship console a little "weak" and buff it later than release it in too powerful of a state and have to nerf it at a later time.

Again, we're going to keep testing this internally further, and we'll listen to player feedback. We do read these forums on a regular basis, we just don't always have a chance to reply to every thread (either because we're too busy fixing or implementing things, or because we don't want to make a statement about something that's still in flux and may change).
Okay, so the main issue I've had in experience is that when running two existing cannon abilities, they always force the consoles onto cooldown so I have to manually stop activating my buffs, and click-activate the console interrupting my buff sequences.

I'd suggest that you leave that they put the cannon spread volley, and cannon rapid fire abilities on cooldown.

HOWEVER, do not have those abilities put the consoles on cooldowns.


Thus, CSV -> Tachyon Burst works, but Tachyon Burst -> CSV doesn't.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 258
# 35
02-21-2013, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosebloome View Post
Thanks for the response and clearing that up!

Where as I can understand chaining these abilities together can give too much burst damage, the linked GCD between BOFF cannon abilities and the console's abilities just seem a little extreme. Currently, it is faster to just not use them, in example, Elite Khitomer Space stf, with probes. Just using one of the console abilities itself won't punch down a group of probes as well as just using the C:SV boff ability. You'd actually be hurting yourself, because suddenly you're auto attacking for the next 15 seconds. At the moment, the only way around this would be to Que up the actual ability itself since its more similiar to a torpedo ability, lasting 30 seconds til used. And Queing it up 15 seconds ahead of time to use it, then switch to cannon BOFF abilities.

Personally, I would think a shared GCD of say 30 - 45 seconds or so between the console abilities, or even higher, would let players keep the rather unique feel of the unique abilities these ships can have, and still not break the game with too high of burst since it would have a longer GCD than the boff cannon abilities would by themselves.

Though, this post now seems like it'd be better in suggesstions. lol
Honestly, I agree with this suggestion. Having the consoles share a longer cooldown amongst themselves would, to me, be highly preferable to them sharing and having the same cooldown as CRF/CSV.

There are several good suggestions in this thread to make them more attractive while keeping them from chaining too strongly with cannon BOff abilities, and I sincerely hope that Cryptic will take a long, close look at these consoles to make them more attractive to equip, rather than an almost strict loss over the relevant cannon abilities.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 36
02-21-2013, 05:22 PM
I think we are looking at this the wrong way I think what happens is when you use the wing cannon it uses cannon raid fire right away without you having to click it it seams in the new pictures that he post in the blog and that's why it goes on cool down so you can't do two cannon raid fires right after each other
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,160
# 37
02-21-2013, 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To be clear, these currently *are* intended to have a shared cooldown with Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Spread Volley.

These console powers are very potent, especially with the three piece set bonus. During internal testing, we tried it without putting them on the cannon shared cooldown. We found that rotating from Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload provided an extraordinarily high amount of burst.

We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

We could have put a long shared cooldown (say, 60 seconds) between Tachyon Burst and Overload, but this would have cut down the incentive to have those two consoles equipped at the same time significantly.

We also could have decreased the power of the individual abilities rather than making them share the cannon cooldown - and I did test it out that way internally - but it wasn't as satisfying.

We're still examining this further, but we would prefer to release a ship console a little "weak" and buff it later than release it in too powerful of a state and have to nerf it at a later time.

Again, we're going to keep testing this internally further, and we'll listen to player feedback. We do read these forums on a regular basis, we just don't always have a chance to reply to every thread (either because we're too busy fixing or implementing things, or because we don't want to make a statement about something that's still in flux and may change).
So you can use them once then all your normal abilities are locked on a long CD? LOL so pleased I kept my money. Thanks for posting this info guys, hope they clear it up for you guys that have shelled out the 5K Zen because you're getting a glass cannon that hit's hard in between coffee breaks as it stands now. Problem is also I went to Tribble to test this before I bought and it isn't there, in fact lots of ships aren't on tribble so I didn't buy, seems for once I made a good decision.

Get it right Cryptic and I would buy it, the full pack, as it is now, not a chance. I already have a bug so unless it offers something close or exceeding the firepower of that monster then I don't see the point. Does look pretty though, at least the ship designers got it right.

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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
# 38
02-21-2013, 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
To be clear, these currently *are* intended to have a shared cooldown with Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Spread Volley.

These console powers are very potent, especially with the three piece set bonus. During internal testing, we tried it without putting them on the cannon shared cooldown. We found that rotating from Tachyon Burst -> Rapid Fire -> Overload provided an extraordinarily high amount of burst.

We do have an internal QA team, and they're actually the reason why these *are* on a shared cooldown - the burst potential was just too high.

We could have put a long shared cooldown (say, 60 seconds) between Tachyon Burst and Overload, but this would have cut down the incentive to have those two consoles equipped at the same time significantly.

We also could have decreased the power of the individual abilities rather than making them share the cannon cooldown - and I did test it out that way internally - but it wasn't as satisfying.

We're still examining this further, but we would prefer to release a ship console a little "weak" and buff it later than release it in too powerful of a state and have to nerf it at a later time.

Again, we're going to keep testing this internally further, and we'll listen to player feedback. We do read these forums on a regular basis, we just don't always have a chance to reply to every thread (either because we're too busy fixing or implementing things, or because we don't want to make a statement about something that's still in flux and may change).
So as per what you are saying here is that you think the combination attack that you would be capable of doing using the consoles and bridge powers are too powerful. But yet you have other ships that possess other consoles that when used in unison with BOFF are too powerful.

so you dont think the vesta consoles are overpowered, or plasmonic leech, aceton assimilator, Team fortress, Tachyon beam, etc etc etc. All abilities when used together create powerful effects some more damaging than others. If you made a console set designed for damage to SYNERGIZE (as you put it in the notes) with CRF and CSV you cant lock out those two abilities from the set it nullifies what you were trying to create. Your essentially telling people that in order to use 1 console in a buffed way you need two other consoles that become useless. its like set bonuses that SYNERGIZE but in this case its consoles not bonuses.

So if i may be so bold here as to ask, Why was this information and limitation not posted with the stats and description for the consoles. You knew it was a big issue, you just said that but yet you what casually forgot to add it into the noted and description?? Its like you just sold me a 50000 dollar car that comes with extra features that i cant use when im using the standard ones. LOL
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 289
# 39
02-21-2013, 06:02 PM
Like I posted before 1 OP ability is not going to break the game and for players that drop $50 on it desirve something good for the price. Having an OP ability will increase sales. All this is going to do is allow Feds to have alpha strike ability. BOP's can take another player from %100 to dead in 2sec right now. How is that not OP? So we will have the ability to have one ability that compairs to the alpha strike, So what. Put it the way it was advertised and give us our $$$$ worth and let the other that dont have it cry.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 330
# 40
02-21-2013, 06:39 PM
+1 on another lost sale. And I really, really wanted to get them, too.
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