Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 16
# 1 True ship movement
02-23-2013, 02:54 AM
What is the reason for not being able to move like a real starship in STO? Why can't we make barrelrols loopings etc. A plane or spaceship is able to move in 3 directions, but in sto its only 2, why is it so unrealistic?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,249
# 2
02-23-2013, 10:19 AM
Because in the shows, space combat generally had a 'tall ship' kind of feel about it; with two ships (more or less) facing each other nose to nose. They almost always appeared the same way up, and at the same 'elevation', relative to one another. So, the devs felt STO ship combat should be like that too.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 625
# 3
02-23-2013, 10:21 AM
As I have understand, I am a fairly new player, but there have been topics about this subject before and I myself wonder from time to time about this issue. It is a choice of the developpers. During tests people got desorientated so they decided to make a universe with and up and a down.

I don't believe this. It means there is a test version where we have a (more) true space flight and I don't believe there is such a version. So I think they created the game as it is from the start. It was surely a point of discussion during developpment, but that was likely the only thing. I myself gets sometimes desorientated when I have to spiral down to get there, turn, turn, turn ... where the hell am I?

A thing to consider is, this game has ground combat, a ground sphere, and space combat, a space sphere. Two total different environments when it comes to movement, yet it has to be handled by one game engine. So an idea is to make space combat/movement something that looks like moving in space, but isn't it.

And another thing. In space there is no up and down. Your space craft defines it for you. Suppose you like your ship more when it is upside down. In a true space simulation you can fly it upside down, while it looks to you the right way is up. It would make the designer silly of course, when a lot of players flip there ship over.

Last edited by fovrel; 02-23-2013 at 10:24 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 625
# 4
02-23-2013, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
Because in the shows, space combat generally had a 'tall ship' kind of feel about it; with two ships (more or less) facing each other nose to nose. They almost always appeared the same way up, and at the same 'elevation', relative to one another. So, the devs felt STO ship combat should be like that too.
We can conclude. In the STO universe, up is up from the space craft of the leading character.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,139
# 5
02-23-2013, 12:52 PM
The game has an autoleveling mechanism built in so I think the argument that players would get disoriented is pure BS.
Frankly it won't take anything at all away from the game to let space craft act like space craft.
Yes there has been a tall ships feeling to the flights of these ships but there are plenty of scenes in the TV series and the movies of ships going inverted to give an angle to fire, the Defiant spiraling like a fighter jet, the Enterprise E inverting to protect its dorsal shield while firing at the underside of a So'na ship, the Alt universe Galaxy going vertical to bring it's phaser lance to bear on a Klingon ship.
Now it might be said that there are no roll controls built in, but there are pitch controls and the artificial limit to pitch angles doesn't need to exist. A ship being able to pitch to inverted then autoleveling out it would not only not detract from the game, it would look damn cool.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,238
# 6
02-28-2013, 11:44 AM
lol at the disoriented argument.
if that was true then everything from eve all the way back to colony wars & g-police would have had a lot of players lost in space.

to be honest im not too fussed about the tied to horizontal thing, changing it would probably require a lot of coding to provide the 6dof environment.

for now i would rather they made some kind of link between a ships size & weight vs its engine & power rather than 'because magic'.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 801
# 7
02-28-2013, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
The game has an autoleveling mechanism built in so I think the argument that players would get disoriented is pure BS.
Frankly it won't take anything at all away from the game to let space craft act like space craft.
Yes there has been a tall ships feeling to the flights of these ships but there are plenty of scenes in the TV series and the movies of ships going inverted to give an angle to fire, the Defiant spiraling like a fighter jet, the Enterprise E inverting to protect its dorsal shield while firing at the underside of a So'na ship, the Alt universe Galaxy going vertical to bring it's phaser lance to bear on a Klingon ship.
Now it might be said that there are no roll controls built in, but there are pitch controls and the artificial limit to pitch angles doesn't need to exist. A ship being able to pitch to inverted then autoleveling out it would not only not detract from the game, it would look damn cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
lol at the disoriented argument.
if that was true then everything from eve all the way back to colony wars & g-police would have had a lot of players lost in space.

to be honest im not too fussed about the tied to horizontal thing, changing it would probably require a lot of coding to provide the 6dof environment.

for now i would rather they made some kind of link between a ships size & weight vs its engine & power rather than 'because magic'.

There have been plenty of games, space combat or otherwise that have had more freedom of movement and while at first it take a bit of getting used to it adds so much more to a game. Prior to the CGI revolution it simply wasn't practical for a ship on a tv series to have such a dynamic range of motion. Studio models were big and really not that durable. That's why in the later series and movies we see this move from straight in line fighting to all out combat in a more fluid and dynamic means.

They have adjusted the pitch limit before, and if nothing else there is no reason why they can adjust it again so that we can go vertical or near vertical instead of having to "corkscrew" up and down.

If they made it so ships were linked to a size/speed ratio then everyone would end up flying escorts because a ships turn rate is limiting enough already.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,139
# 8
02-28-2013, 01:13 PM
People forget to factor in a ships inertia rating as well as it's turn rate, the lower the inertia number the slower the ship will turn, accelerate or stop. An escort has an inertia rating of 50, an Odyssey a rating of 20. It is a combination of the turn rate, impulse thrusters skill, driver coil skill, inertia rating and any powers that affect these ratings that determines how slowly a ship will turn.
No great amount of coding would be needed to change a ships maximum allowable pitch angle, that is a single number that has been arbitrarily chosen.
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,687
# 9
02-28-2013, 01:16 PM
You can keep trying to ask for full 3D movement, but the Devs have pretty much already answered this one long, long ago and the answer was no.

They did tweak the pitch to increase it over what it was originally at launch, and that's probably the best we'll get.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,139
# 10
02-28-2013, 02:31 PM
Killjoy!! Well of all of the science fiction series Star Treks space flight is the most unrealistic so I guess it's to be expected, but even Star trek has used the ability to translate up and down(Zplus/minus. dive/surface), something not implemented in this game even though it would use the same jump/crouch lateral strafing mechanic as the ground game.

Last edited by maxvitor; 02-28-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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