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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,336
# 21
02-25-2013, 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vesolc View Post
- Decrease BA power drain

Just this and we are cool.
I'd argue they also need to revisit the way single cannons do damage as well. But BA drain is a must-fix.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,806
# 22
02-25-2013, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
So I would ask you guys this. Enough with the petty crap, enough with all the flame fests. We need to agree as a community (even if our voices don't seem to count for crap). Who knows, maybe if we all agreed on something, it might change.

Anyways, let's get started.
Well said.

As i already said numerous times, i think the whole concept of pressing Star Trek ships into a Stone/Paper/Scissor game mechanic is just basicly wrong. Other games did a much better job, like the Starfleet Command series or Bridge Commander.

In Star Trek, Cruisers are NOT supporters, they are the main ships. Other ships, more specialised ships like Escorts or Science ships are just "specialists" but they aren't nearly as powerful as the big cruisers.

STO on the other hand just gave Star trek ships completely different "roles", this alienates at least me very much.

It wouldn't bother me if this where not a Star Trek game. Other Sci Fi universes can much easier get away with such a game mechanic, but Cryptic either deliberately or out of incompetence completely ignores the uniqueness of Star Trek ships.

Since this game is already running for three years now (who would have thought that three years ago? ) i think it is highly unlikely they will correct their errors. So what's to be done?

I think Cryptic should overthink the role of Cruisers in their game completely. They already made all ships being able to keep themselves alive, thats a good beginning IMO.
The next step would be to give Cruisers a bigger damage potential, by either increasing cruisers energy output, enhancing Beam weapons or by introducing heavy Beam arrays. Their role could be to deliver big amounts of AOE damage, so they need some (engineering power) which is more like Scatter Volley. Different than FAW it should focus fire on a smaller area, maybe 120 degrees.

The other problem is the cruisers low turn rate. This is something i just don't understand. I don't see any reason why they made cruisers so slow in the first place. It just makes them passive and boring. Originally cryptic was hoping poeple would like having cruisers being equal to Star Wars - ish capital ships. But that just shows the ignorance of cryptics desingers, they obviously completely ignored StarTrek in favour of their own little Star Wars / BSG or whatever fantasy.

Personally i see no point in making Cruisers artificially boring, by giving them such a low turnrate.
In my opinion they should get a +2 or +3 buff in their basic turn rate, i don't hink that would be too much to ask IMO.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,126
# 23
02-25-2013, 07:15 AM
Honestly, its a nice dream but its not going to happen.

There are far far too many bad cruiser captains out there either wanting to Kirk (yes, it is a bad thing) or out dps cruisers or plain don't want to be in the role a cruiser is supposed to fill. Most of them don't even know how to spec a cruiser right, so they come here and complain, because complaining is easier than fixing your problems, right?

Fact is, the defiant was said to be the most heavily armed ship in the quadrant, your imaginary galaxy class doesn't compare. In battle, like sacrifice of angels, the cruisers fanned out to the side, took the hits while the more agile ships flew through the centre and attacked.

S7 destroyed any semblance of balance that existed. Escorts took all passive heals, cruisers took all passive heals, the weapons buffs were terribly balanced. You can't give the most fragile class a bunch of heals and the tankiest class terrible offense options.

A small decrease in BA power drain and a fix to some beam based abilities and we should be ok. If BFaW worked like CSV, and BO more like CRF we'd be in business.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,396
# 24
02-25-2013, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiloace View Post
- Decrease BA power drain[/i]
it's not so much the power drain needs to be decreased, but the ROF needs to be increased; that would bring its DPS values in line with other weapons that drain the same amount of power

also, consider the addition of an intrinsic accuracy boost, similar to dual heavy cannon's intrinsic critical severity boost, since beams are pinpoint weapons, after all
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 25
02-25-2013, 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
Fact is, the defiant was said to be the most heavily armed ship in the quadrant, your imaginary galaxy class doesn't compare. In battle, like sacrifice of angels, the cruisers fanned out to the side, took the hits while the more agile ships flew through the centre and attacked.
Not sure where you get that. It was said,that the Defiant had the firepower almost like a Galaxy but was much more smaller. You should realize, the dmg output of Star Trek ship is determined A) their warp core B) torpedo barrages. Warp core gives energy to phasers. Doesnt matter how many emmiters or banks you have if you do not have energy for them.

If you look at Sacrifice of Angles actually, the Defiant attacks small ships only, while the Galaxy wings takes on the Galors.

There should either be heavy beams implemented, or existing beam arrays changed to 1-2 hits per volley. Same dps, just in less hits with greater burst.

Last edited by dalnar83; 02-25-2013 at 07:23 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 26
02-25-2013, 07:26 AM
Random thoughts, in no particular order and not necessarily linked to one another

1) Completely revamp power drain mechanic: firing doesn't reduce weapon power but instead adds a flat stacking percentage penalty per weapon (different per weapon type) to outgoing damage. Current power boosting abilities (EPtW, EPS Transfer, Nadion etc) would all be reworked to counter said drain as part of their normal function.

2) Reduce Fed cruiser weapon slotting to 2/2 or 2/1 (bear with me here). Add a new, 360 degree Fed-cruiser only beam weapon with damage equivalent to multiple beam arrays, but proportionally less drain. (This will likely necessitate a rework of how BO works with said uber-arrays to prevent hilarious one-shottage). Additionally, make all torpedoes wide-angle (180 degree) for Fed-cruisers.

3) Give cruisers a base bonus to manual shield transfer capability
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
# 27
02-25-2013, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vesolc View Post
Fact is, the defiant was said to be the most heavily armed ship in the quadrant, your imaginary galaxy class doesn't compare. In battle, like sacrifice of angels, the cruisers fanned out to the side, took the hits while the more agile ships flew through the centre and attacked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Not sure where you get that. It was said,that the Defiant had the firepower almost like a Galaxy but was much more smaller. You should realize, the dmg output of Star Trek ship is determined A) their warp core B) torpedo barrages. Warp core gives energy to phasers. Doesnt matter how many emmiters or banks you have if you do not have energy for them.

If you look at Sacrifice of Angles actually, the Defiant attacks small ships only, while the Galaxy wings takes on the Galors.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: on-screen evidence in Star Trek is dubious at best, as the capabilities of any starship are subject to change based on plot demands and the whims of the writer. They should just be disregarded when talking about game balance.

If Cryptic is going to stick to its (currently horribly supported) heal-tank-DPS trinity, then cruisers need better aggro management tools. Right now, Escorts play the role of tank and DPS, since the only way to draw aggro is to do a lot of damage.

If cruisers could reliably take aggro off of me without requiring me to intentionally cut my DPS in half, then I'd be okay with shaving off some escort durability. As it is, though, you can't nerf escort survivability without hurting the game -- escorts would either just not fight as hard, or would spend a lot of time staring at 30- and 60-second respawn counters.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 28
02-25-2013, 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
If you look at Sacrifice of Angles actually, the Defiant attacks small ships only, while the Galaxy wings takes on the Galors.
More accurately, the Galaxy wings interposed themselves between the "ambushing" Galors and the rest of the assault fleet, taking the damage the fleet's smaller ships couldn't necessarily handle.

Tactical deployment doesn't necessarily equal tactical capability.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 866
# 29
02-25-2013, 07:38 AM
I've flew escorts as a main for almost two years, so I have this to add.

Cruisers don't need a buff, it's escorts that need a nerf.

When the Andorian ship was released it had an issue whereby it's shield mod was much lower and all it's healing was about 1/3 effective. It was still possible to tank, but for the first time an escort was what it should be, a glass cannon.

This is pretty much how every escort should be like at T5. This way you actually have a real choice, since at the moment flying an escort is to have your cake and eat it. An escort at the moment can tank pretty much anything yet deal uber damage at the same time.

A nerf to it's shield and healing abilities would mean cruisers will have a fighting chance of keeping up with them.

Also they need to bring back the old weapon drain mechanics. The present weapon drain mechanics is one of the things that's causing escorts to have such crazy damage.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai

Last edited by orondis; 02-25-2013 at 07:42 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 30
02-25-2013, 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
More accurately, the Galaxy wings interposed themselves between the "ambushing" Galors and the rest of the assault fleet, taking the damage the fleet's smaller ships couldn't necessarily handle.

Tactical deployment doesn't necessarily equal tactical capability.
You don't see them taking any damage at all. What you see is them beating a Galor out of the way; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoIFUJxJwcQ; you see it at around 1:00, the Galor is shooting up the little ships, then the Galaxys move in at set it listing away in just a few shots.

Combat footage from the shows is an unreliable indicator; but the implication here is that the Galaxys were sent in because they were powerful enough to take them, not just tough enough to withstand them.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
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