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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 61
02-25-2013, 05:02 PM
Okay, having read the thread in it's entirety, I think most of my main points have already been made, particularly about passive heals having a very strong effect; there are dozens of little things that have a cumulative effect of making kills extremely difficult when all the heals & resists are stacked up. What this thread gets me thinking is that the root problem lies in a number of pvp variables being out of whack, and achieving the proper balance between them would solve many of the problems.

1. Spike vs. Sustained DPS, relative to enemy resists & passive healing. Sustained DPS can be largely ignored and overridden by passive regen.

2. Buffer vs. Spike DPS. As it is, if I unleash a full alpha strike against a completely un-buffed target that is receiving no heals, it will be dead in under five seconds, probably under three. When people are on their own, or don't have a good bridge officer layout for tanking, they are rather helpless, and no one has fun with that.

3. Healing. As it is, healing is strong enough to keep an ally up literally forever in team situations in the absence of buff strips, assuming that healers are on the ball.

Get the balance between these five things right, and figure out some way for people to be challenged in PvE and learn team-play, and pvp will be in a much better state.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 62
02-25-2013, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Well, I think this thread may have already ran its course.

Thank you all very much for your feedback, and taking the time to consider the possibilities.

It sounds like we're all fairly well agreed that the benefits of the originally-stated proposals would range from "Minimally-Good" to "Massively-Bad," and are therefore not really sound propositions as large, sweeping changes.

Were we able to provide any ideas at least that were helpful?


Is there any way that players could better help you moving forward?

Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 78
# 63
02-25-2013, 05:06 PM
well Escorts are good like they are.... they dont need more damage they dont need more hull and they dont need more shields...
Cruisers need more damage more hull and more shields... mainly for engineers
And sci ships like the vesta need more hull... and more efectiveness on the sci abilities... because the only good thing sci captians have right now is subnuc and scatter field... and even the subnuc can be cleared...
Escorts right now are way over powered... just one escort can make good damage on a engi cruiser... so to balance things out you should only give boosts to any non tactical & escort ship... because tactical captians already have dps... escorts have a lot of dps... so cruisers and sci ship should be the only ones to have boost on weapons shields and hull to balance things out... because right now tactical is the one to have...and only persons with love for the other professions are using it... do we want everyone using tac escorts? no... so work on the other ones make them better and dont buff even more the escorts
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,533
# 64
02-25-2013, 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Well, I think this thread may have already ran its course.

Thank you all very much for your feedback, and taking the time to consider the possibilities.

It sounds like we're all fairly well agreed that the benefits of the originally-stated proposals would range from "Minimally-Good" to "Massively-Bad," and are therefore not really sound propositions as large, sweeping changes.
your on the right track really, there just has to be the correct give and take. buff hitpoints, nerf resistance, and suddenly damage, heals and spike become less powerful, but you wouldn't really die any faster. my post on page 3 spells it out in detail, hope you saw it. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=25

bluntly saying that this is a bad idea is a bit of a kneejerk, but something like this REALLY needs to be done at this point. to many things have been marginalized by power creep, not everything is power creeping equally. the more hitpoints/less resistence fix would set up an environment were things could power creep more evenly.

or my other suggestion of making all weapons more spiky, less shots with more power behind them.
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Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 02-25-2013 at 05:46 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 65
02-25-2013, 05:45 PM
It's also worth noting that while everyone seems to have a different approach, there is a general consensus for more normalized gameplay that is less of a back and forth of extremes between Damage, healing, and resistances.

Given the global diversity of the player base I'd say it's pretty telling overall.

Last edited by ocp001; 02-25-2013 at 05:50 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,836
# 66
02-25-2013, 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Well everyone knows it's the real issue, and while Bort steps in this forums quite often he's also responsible for some ships stats, such as the Kumari.

So, um, well... What's the point?
pretty sure he's one of the PR guys, nothing more, and so has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with anything data-related to the game, otherwise he'd be the one posting the release notes
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
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Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,966
# 67
02-25-2013, 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I think you got more of don't nerf me, bro... than anything else, tbh.

Tom's a healer - don't nerf mah healing, bro!
Rick's a Bill Nye - don't nerf mah dirty bag o' tricks, bro!
Harry does DPS - don't nerf mah spike, bro!

There was also a lot of independent feedback on each item without taking them as a whole.

It takes too long to kill as is - don't make it harder!
Everybody dies too fast as is - don't make it easier!
And er, 50/50, on the third - some saying it takes too long - some saying it happens too fast...don't make it harder...er...easier...harder...easier!

To an extent, the responses are a perfect example of how it's an On/Off switch - you've either got the right team comp and all your enemies are dead in a blink or you've got the wrong comp and can't kill anything. There's too much survivability - there's not enough survivability.

Addressing the three things (perhaps with others) - could actually change it from being that On/Off. You're not going to get those replies...

You're going to get the...

Don't nerf mah stuff, bro!

Whether it's Tom, Rick, Harry, or the guys that have found a nice comp that works well for them...

Folks want everybody else nerfed but themselves. They don't realize that it's a give and take situation if you want a better, more balanced game...

edit: And oh yeah, what's up with the coffee?
This.

Honestly there are maybe five posters I have come across that have a solid understanding of the mechanics and the math in this game. Their is only one that I will trust without double checking their testing and math.

Most posters simply have an agenda, style, or philosophy on how they want the game to be, or how they like the game to be. The quantity of unbiased opinions and feedback from any of these forums is very low.

Just check the last thread trying to determine 'balanced' PvP tornie rules that was a riot.
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Republic Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 65
# 68
02-25-2013, 08:59 PM
Discard number 1.

Numbers 2 and 3 are more viable.

In the TV shows and Movies. Weapon power is just that, The shields start to go down when being fired upon. They always have to divert power from one resource to the shields or weapons.
What makes the show exciting is: The ship can be destroyed (which is why I say discard number 1). What makes the show even more exciting is: They creatively find away to save themselves. And that is what we need to be doing in PVP.

If you are in an escort, you make that first pass, if the ship that you are attacking is still alive you might want to get out of there before they can take your shields and hull out.

If you are a Science ship, Control, control control.

If you are a Cruiser, Tank it and provide sustained firepower.

Either way, all ships can be destroyed, but whomever is creative in finding away to survive, the spoils goes to them.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,138
# 69
02-25-2013, 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
pretty sure he's one of the PR guys, nothing more, and so has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with anything data-related to the game, otherwise he'd be the one posting the release notes
You don't read signatures very well, do you?
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Cryptic - Systems Design
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Kurland here...
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,336
# 70
02-25-2013, 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
You don't read signatures very well, do you?
Lmao hah!
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