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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,424
# 71
02-25-2013, 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
What do you think of that part being...

SNB's not a complete strip.
TT/ET/ST/HE/etc are not a complete cleanse.

...in conjunction with the first two?

It's a buff to both buffs/debuffs in its own way. It would no longer be the "Haha, your buffs are gone!" nor "Haha, your debuffs are gone!" - it would allow for more of a middleground. Debuffs would stay longer and help offset buffs while buffs would stay longer and help offset debuffs. A sort of balancing act...
Sounds feasible. Could help with some areas. But of course we're still in the problem area where Spike damage is king where Pressure Damage is not as useful usually.
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Think about this:
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,451
# 72
02-25-2013, 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
You don't read signatures very well, do you?
lol Classic.

Thanks for including us in the early talks Bort.

If you can create the tech to do this though really consider somehow wrapping in the real issues of passives and doff effects and the low level ship included consoles.

I know turning those effects off could be a massive PR nightmare at this point... taking things away isn't really a favorite option I know.

However perhaps it isn't a full disable... if you have the control to tune each one only in PvP... perhaps we don't have to suffer 30s gravity pulses... perhaps things like leach can go back to being OP vs the borg, but remain as weak against Players.

The idea behind the Tech is fine... most of us have likely called ideas like this one cope outs before... and depending on the implementation perhaps it is. However I understand we are likely never going to get a sweeping set of changes that will really effect PvE as well anymore. So perhaps some fine tuning on some of the more heavily unbalanced items and effects for PvP can work.

No matter which way you go... thanks for asking.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 73
02-26-2013, 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
pretty sure he's one of the PR guys, nothing more, and so has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with anything data-related to the game, otherwise he'd be the one posting the release notes
No, he's in charge of tuninb abilities, creating new ones, he can tune NPCs too, and he's in charge of the doff system. He can also step in the starbase system occasionally. And he has a word to say in ships stats.

TBH I don't know if he's the one thinking that if it's not OP it won't be bought, but at least amajority of the devs must think so, and he can't really tellus what he thinks, but he's also definitely a part of what's happening in pvp too.

The latest tribble patch notes proves two things:
- Cryptic doesn't care really much about pvp balance when it comes to ship sales.
- Some devs have really poor anticipation abilities. How can someone expect that a DPS console on an escort ship won't break everything? How can they expect players not to complain to get uber OP dps consoles?

It can look a bit off topic but it's not. Powers are completely out of control, in pvp and even in pve (which currently really looks pathetic). You can stack amazing resistances and have insane spike damage abilities. This needs to have a hard limit, both for resists (to sci stuff, to damage) and dps at the same time, otherwise, pvp makes no sense because it's a spike damage + snb war. And a placate war too these days.

I can't count the number of angry tells i've been getting using all of the dirty tricks the game has. And I know it can be frustrating when you have someone flying a supposedly fragile ship tanking a pair of escorts working in tandem. And to get almost instantly smoked by someone when you're not expecting anything (esp. in kerrat ). This is a bit too extreme in both cases.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,600
# 74
02-26-2013, 02:36 AM
While I like the idea of injuries, so that engs can actually be true healers.

I like DDIS's idea about increasing the spikeiness of all weapons a lot.

On a side note, the consensus on passives healing and resists seems to send a very clear message. Hope it helps.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 412
# 75
02-26-2013, 03:37 AM
As a crucial alternative or addition to your proposal, Borticus, a two league system should be considered.

For really serious end-game PvP, several special Zen store consoles would be must-haves (e.g., the Andorian +25% dmg to shields debuff etc.). This would be Pay2Win.
Instead of tackling the lengthy task of re-scaling/re-evaluating all of these consoles or simply disabling them in general, there should be one league allowing, and one league not allowing special consoles.
My guess would be that, initially, the special console league would seem the more prestigious one, but in time, the "normal" league would become the more serious one, lacking any "I win buttons". But anyhow, players would still be able to decide and there would be no outcry due to simply disabling expensive consoles...
Of course the Pay2Win league would need slightly higher rewards than the normal league, as Cryptic wants to create an incentive for players to actually buy Zen store ships and their special consoles. However, such a system still seems like the best compromise to me.
STOWiki admin.

Last edited by kagasensei; 02-26-2013 at 03:45 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,271
# 76
02-26-2013, 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
You don't read signatures very well, do you?
*sighs and slaps himself* i do now...though, to be fair, it's a tiny signature so it's easy to miss

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
And to get almost instantly smoked by someone when you're not expecting anything (esp. in kerrat ). This is a bit too extreme in both cases.
but that's half the fun! you can't execute glorious revenge against someone if you don't get blown up at least once

and if you get blown up more than once? time to re-evaluate your skills and boff setup, because what you have currently isn't working
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.

Last edited by shadowfang240; 02-26-2013 at 05:29 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 987
# 77
02-26-2013, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
and if you get blown up more than once? time to re-evaluate your skills and boff setup, because what you have currently isn't working
That can be very difficult to determine because you need to know *exactly* how the game works to know all the dirty tricks and how they can be stacked together for great effect.

When Diogene or any other experienced PvPer goes into a PUG, they dominate, and the PUG largely will have no clue how, nor will they learn much of anything. Then they get super frustrated and say "&#$^ this game's PvP".
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 73
# 78
02-26-2013, 06:07 AM
it is good, no it's fantastic, that you, cryptic, tries to improve pvp.
but to be honest and without offending any other people, especially people having "problems" in pvp, don't listen to the majority of player.

i am really tired of reading comments like "cruisers need more damage + healing + turn rate + replicators + whatever".
there are some cruiser ingame, which can't be cracked by one or two escorts, even with one snb. on the other hand, there are cruisers with full health, which can be destroyed by an escort with one dhc volley and one overload

like naz already told, experienced pvp teams (knowing mechanics, good teamplay, decent build and setup, ...), can need several hours for one match.
my fleet had some weeks ago a league fight (no fleet shields allowed). the match ended after 45minutes and we "won" 5:3 (or something like this). nearly all kills were extremely high beam overload critshots (40k and more). without the timelimit it would have taken for sure at least 2 hours.

taking "top pvp teams" as scale, damage of _all_ ships should be increased or healing should be decreased. but the changes (only a few percentage points) should be done in several small steps.
and these changes won't help not so professional pvp player. a good pvp player in a desastrous pug v. another desastrous pug match will still decide the match. professional pvp player (with or without teamspeak, assist train and so on) will still roflstomp a "classic" pug team.
it is not the fault of the game mechanic nor of an experienced player, when some people don't try to improve their whole game play.

the best thing which can be done at this time by cryptic, are such projects like the pvp boot camp. there are a lot of people in pvp, doing meanwhile a much better job.

*throws 2 cents in the hat*
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,271
# 79
02-26-2013, 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
That can be very difficult to determine because you need to know *exactly* how the game works to know all the dirty tricks and how they can be stacked together for great effect.

When Diogene or any other experienced PvPer goes into a PUG, they dominate, and the PUG largely will have no clue how, nor will they learn much of anything. Then they get super frustrated and say "&#$^ this game's PvP".
see, the thing is, those same experienced PvPers will be more than happy to explain in great detail exactly how they turned your ship into an expanding cloud of superheated plasma and potential ways to counter it, plus giving you general build advice to make your ship more effective, if you but ask them...something more people should be encouraged to do, instead of throwing a tantrum like a two year-old just because they get blown up once

if you PvP, you're going to get blown up; that's a fact of this game, but you don't have to keep blowing up if you're willing to ask for help
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 990
# 80
02-26-2013, 06:45 AM
Sorry if this is going a little off topic, but... while I can't speak for anyone else, but there was a time when I could take pretty much anything into PvP and make a decent contribution. I could get plenty of kills flying any type of ship, with whatever powers took my fancy (except maybe BP); all it really required was not being totally clueless and incompetent. I could do that while still healing and debuffing too.

Now, I apparently need a two week induction course, super elite gear that can take months of grinding to acquire, and one of only a small handful of viable cookie-cutter builds.

Hardly seems unreasonable to think the days when stuff actually worked were better than the days when the game's elite have to set up a school just to stop people rage quitting out of sheer frustration (though I greatly respect such a laudable effort BTW). Sure, I know those days had their own problems, but I still know which era I had more fun with.

In short, as a casual PvPer, I don't feel that 'ask for help' is a real solution to the problem (well... maybe in the case of people who don't care what they are flying, so long as it wins them matches, but some of us do care).
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
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