That's not a flaw, because you were never promised it in the first place unless you owned the Bug. That obviously means it was targeted to existing/prospective Bug owners. Non-owners were NEVER promised it, or entitled to it in the first place. It's an optional extra restricted to a small minority of players. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

Besides, Cryptic doesn't make a dime off of Bug ships bought via the exchange. They might do so indirectly via people buying keys to open lockboxes or sell, but the prices of the Bug are entirely the product of player desire. That's not their doing, and they have no obligation to change it.

Skin change is significant but a different carrier pet isn't? For example Escort Retrofit is almost exactly like Patrol Escort. I agree, roleplaying is SIGNIFICANT reason to get JHAS carrier pets too.

LOL. Like they ignored all those threads asking for retrofits and mirror ships? No, they actually listened and added them.

Can you help me by clarifying whether you are being disingenuous? I have a hard time detecting that.

A Different carrier pet is definitely significant, but my point is that you lot are treating it as if Cryptic has sold the Jammie Dread as THE ONE AND ONLY REASON TO EVER GET IT. That's flat-out WRONG.

I'm in no position to say whether or not the JDC is truly worth it for any OTHER reason (clearly you lot don't think so), but I CAN say that many of the whiners are ignoring the forest for the trees.

As for Cryptic releasing more retrofits and mirror ships based on forum demand, yes, we're lucky that they continue to listen in spite of moronic behavior like this thread. Other developers have simply stopped.

And you should clarify if you and those who share your complaints are being willfully ignorant...actually, never mind, it's already clear you are.

I already said that they make money indirectly when a player acquires a JHAS by normal means, but the actual exchange transaction means nothing to them. They either made their money when made your EC (if you sold Zen items for it, as some do), or when someone won the JHAS in the first place. But the act of buying a Bug on the exchange puts nothing in their pocket.

I'm done. There's no point trying to convince you. I can only hope your attitude doesn't infect anyone else playing this or any other game.

No, I'm assuming that they tied the bugs to the ship as a reward for owning the Bug. Except that's a stupid thing to do for a science guy, and arguably for an engineer. I'm assuming that there is no other gear or ship in the entire game that requires you to own something FROM A LOCKBOX (caps since you can't seem to grasp this) in order to get the full effect.

Your examples are all strawmen; the Borg set just requires all the easily available Borg pieces, not something from a lockbox that's no longer available and that was very rare to begin with.

My point is that there is no purpose in bothering with deliberately crippled items. But since you bring it up...

And there is the main problem I have with you saying anything at all. The Dread Carrier is garbage. It does not turn nearly fast enough to properly use cannons. It's vaunted HP don't matter if it has to spend all it's time trying to DPS since it's fighter complement is garbage. Not only that, but the BOFF setup is borked and it gets only an ensign sci slot...really? For a carrier?

So, while I'm sure in regular PvE it might be okay, it is not going to do much in STF's. And without a frigate-equiv , in PVP it's equally worthless.

It isn't worth the investment.


No, what you seem to be saying in all of your posts is that people should accept this garbage as equitable, and everyone else is telling you it isn't, and instead of countering points with logic for a ship you just admitted you have no idea how it plays you instead accuse people of entitlement.

As for your points:

1) Buying a ship for the value of owning the ship is basically called 'blowing your money on what you like'. That is not the argument. The argument is that the lack of the bug ship leaves one with no other incentive to buy the ship given that in all other aspects it's worse.

WITH the Bug ship, the Carrier is good.
WITHOUT the Bug ship, the Carrier offers nothing that other carriers don't as significantly lower costs.

2) Saying it was clearly stated that owning the Bug ship was a requirement for the pet is also not the problem. The problem is (and no one yet has come up with a decent explaination) that the move makes ZERO SENSE.

There are NO new sources of bug ships. There are NO new ways to get one. Cryptic isn't making ANY MONEY off of sales on the exchange of existing ships and there's been no motion on a new lockbox that will have them.

So , why would you even DO it? It literally benefits no one while pissing off everyone who doesn't own a bug.

3) Implying people are wrong to be upset about this is more of the usual Cryptic Defense Force fluff I expected back in the old days. The bottom line is that we've seen more than a few extremely bad decisions and blunders from the team. And every time, unless people scream their heads off, nothing changes.

800 lobi from just boxes is, roughly 15k ZEN. For that kind of investment you can get all 3 of the 3-ship packs. Yet your contention is that, for 800 lobi, the carrier that doesn't have a pet and is gimped with a slow turn rate, crappy shield modifer, less device slots, and underpowered 'special' console requires additional investment to get all the carrier offers, and complaining about that is entitlement?

What part of tactical based carrier don't you get?

OK, I'm back for one last time.

There's YOUR lack of logic right there. ALL your complaints are based on your opinion of the JD. As a non-owner of either I'm not in a position to say whether or not you're "objectively" right, but I am in a position to say that YOUR opinion - that the JD isn't worth the investment without the Bug pets - is not the only one that matters.

Ultimately it's up to the data Cryptic is gathering (that I doubt you are privy to) to prove whether the JD is truly worth the investment players are putting into it, with or without the Bug pets. And if as many people as you claim are truly whining their heads off, you probably have a point. At that point the ball is in Cryptic's court.

As for "benefiting no one", how about current JD owners that have EC or lockboxes to spare? How about Carrier players that are considering buying a bug off the exchange? The bonus benefits players that want BOTH (or intend to own BOTH). If you're not interested in owning BOTH the JD and JHAS, then it's not for you. It doesn't matter that the Bug ship is rare or not now, the benefit is for owners/purchasers of the Bug, NOT the non-owners. If that pisses you off, tough cookies. Whine on a forum.

If you were asking that the Bug be sold again or a new promo for it be started, you'd be reasonable. But you're just asking for something you don't have to be given to you because you don't have it. That's entitlement.

Eh, I own the JDC, but not the bugship.

IMO, the JDC is pretty nice, even without the bugship pets.

I own neither and have no intention of owning either, however as someone who spends allot of time in my Voquv, I would probably stop playing if they gated my BoP pets behind some expensive, rare, & unrealistic ownership req. This to my my mind is the same thing as the odd gating of that cute little bug, for a carrier driver? lol @ some peoples kids and ideas they come up with.

we have a Threadnought on this topic already, in fact I am surprised this thread hasn't been moved there yet.