Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,925
# 311
02-25-2013, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pug02 View Post
I think we have to make a slight clarification/distinction.

For me the graph does show that the increased power from EPTW resulting in more damage. But that there is not an additional damage from power "beyond" 125. There appears to be a hard cap at 125 but a virtual power level sustaining the power when it drops below 125. This can be seen when lower number of beams are used and there is virtually no damage difference between EPTW I and II.

We do see this sustaining power playing a roll when we reach 6 or more beams, with the divergence in the lines. If there was damage benefit beyond 125 power then we would expect some of this divergence to occur at lower number of beams as well.

Therefore 5 and less beams do not benefit differently between EPTW I and II, because of the hard cap at 125. Virtual power levels do sustain power drops below 125 in case of 6 or more beams.

One thing that isn't clear is that we do see a jump in DPS from FAW II cycle with 2 beams versus FAW II cycle with 2 beams and EPTW I cycle. What is tough to distinguish here is if the 5 second increase energy damage from EPTW I is providing that difference or if the hard cap is slightly above 125. I would have to do some extra number crunching to determine this. I believe someone has demonstrated before that the hard cap might be 135.

If anyone sees more information it would be great to gather some more insight.
thats what i have saying all along! for well over a year now. i really do have this figured out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
125 is the maximum damage modifier, so every shot that doesn't drain below 125 is fired at the max of that 125 modifier. but instead of the worst shot firing at about 60 power, it fires at about 90.
this is why overcaping makes a big difference. a shot fired at 150 power will deal damage as if it was fired at 125. but that shot wont drain power below 125, only to 140. so if you power was at 150, you could fire 5 or 6 beams befor your weapons energy drops below 125, and your weapons start being fired at a lower damage modifier.

BO , even if you have 150 power when it fires, will drain 50 starting at 125, its an ******* of an ability like that, making beam overload extreamly undesirable really. i hate to complain to much about that, they are more likely to 'fix' overcaping, by removing it. oh boy, you thought pressure damage was bad now...


another point to clarify is that the exact weapons power you have the exact server tic a shot is fired, is the power modifier that determines the damage that shot will deal. so for your fist weapons cycle, your first 6 shots will deal 125power damage, and as your energy level fluctuates between the displayed ~90-125, every one of those shots is dealing damage based on a power level in that range.

if you didn't over cap, every shot would deal damage somewhere between ~60 and 125 power. so having all your shots fired at a power level of at least 90 is humungously beneficial to your DPS. that goes for everything, not just beams. but how DHCs drain power, sometimes their whole fireing cycle is done before other weapons start fireing, they have already returned their energy, so their impact on your energy level is much less then other weapons that hog power 4 seconds each.
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 118
# 312
02-25-2013, 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
The damage modifier from power levels has always been capped at 125.

Exceeding the soft cap of 125 is merely for the weapon drain, thus keeping more of your weapons at the 125 weapon power damage modifier.

And, I believe someone said, prior to Season 6, that the hard cap (which was at 135, then 150) has been removed.
Looking only at 2 beams:

I tend to agree with you that 125 looks to be the hard cap. EPTW I has a 10% damage increase for 5 seconds as a modifier. It should result in a 1.6% damage increase over time from just the buff. The total DPS increase from FAW II chaining to FAW II chaining with EPTW I chaining is 4.5%. The remaining 2.9% appears to come from holding the power up at 125. From formulas provided before I estimated that if there was a hard cap above 125 the power value would have had to be about 129. The 4 power level difference is more likely coming from the drop of power below 125 without EPTW I.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 118
# 313
02-25-2013, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
thats what i have saying all along! for well over a year now. i really do have this figured out.
You have to keep in mind that I am attempting to make the point clear and that the things I am listing is not to debunk your point. Sometimes being thorough in a description allows others to grasp what is being discussed. Adding in the numbers allows them to correlate the discussion with the data. I by no means intend my discussion to be personal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
BO , even if you have 150 power when it fires, will drain 50 starting at 125, its an ******* of an ability like that, making beam overload extreamly undesirable really. i hate to complain to much about that, they are more likely to 'fix' overcaping, by removing it. oh boy, you thought pressure damage was bad now...
I haven't looked at BO at all but I have noticed how much power it drains along side a DHC set. I have found that BO attacks rarely yield repeatable results in PvP. When they miss they quite often leave a lot to be desired and can foil a whole attack because of the low power levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
but how DHCs drain power, sometimes their whole fireing cycle is done before other weapons start fireing, they have already returned their energy, so their impact on your energy level is much less then other weapons that hog power 4 seconds each.
DHCs are by far some of the best weapons to use, because of this simple power issue. The previous test I had, also showed how 5 of them still don't get hit by power drain issues. In fact it was turrets that contributed to the drain effect.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,807
# 314
02-25-2013, 07:19 PM
For the sake of my sanity.

Can you run that test using several energy types and graph the damage output of say 6 beams with the overcapping and the output of each type.

That will show if it infact keeps the power at 125 for the second beam shot, OR if it works the way I have already posted it works.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 438
# 315
02-26-2013, 04:49 AM
Question, would you be better off with a cutting beam/mines instead of a turrets?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,039
# 316
02-26-2013, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
Question, would you be better off with a cutting beam/mines instead of a turrets?
Mines have no drain, so if you're able to get full DPS out of them you'd be better off. If you can't hit anything with them, then probably not.

The Cutting Beam is superior to a turret for STFs regardless of any power drain mechanics, due to targets with lots of hulls. There's also no travel time and it fires fairly quickly. Mine parses generally at x1.5 to x2 the damage of one turret.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,114
# 317
02-26-2013, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
Question, would you be better off with a cutting beam/mines instead of a turrets?
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
Mines have no drain, so if you're able to get full DPS out of them you'd be better off. If you can't hit anything with them, then probably not.

The Cutting Beam is superior to a turret for STFs regardless of any power drain mechanics, due to targets with lots of hulls. There's also no travel time and it fires fairly quickly. Mine parses generally at x1.5 to x2 the damage of one turret.
Keep in mind, however, that Cutting Beam benefits from NO tactical consoles. If I recall, the Turrets end up being better than the Cutting Beam because of the tactical console stack.

Also, it doesn't get any benefits from Cannon or Beam skills.

Last edited by shookyang; 02-26-2013 at 11:02 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,039
# 318
02-26-2013, 08:56 AM
You guys get that NOT running the Cutting beam is plain dumb right.

I kid... seriously when the Omega Amp proc negates power drain and your firing 5 fore weapons you would have to be pretty silly not to use it.
/channel_join Tyler Durden
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