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# 111
02-25-2013, 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
I know what you mean there, and very much so The line about not drinking was fantastically done, in that while Alyosha literally does not consume liquids, he could simply have been speaking from the perspective of a Tee Total Human who refused to drink alcohol
Exactly! Alyosha is Russian by culture, too, so I think sometimes on behalf of his countrymen he does get a bit annoyed with the "vodka and nuclear wessels" stereotype that I imagine Chekov did not exactly help with.

(Add to that, the fact that Alyosha has no accent when he speaks English. Which in his case is due to his means of speech being entirely different from what it appears to be. So if he were to do the "nuclear wessels" thing, it would be an act.)

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Equally, it made me wonder how he would have perceived Marcus' bioelectrical energy, because as an immortal, his quickening would have been not only constantly regenerating his physical cellular structure, but also recharging itself as well, so to Alyosha, I can only imagine that would have appeared very different to most other beings...
I would imagine that would appear very different to him, though I think he mainly sees the activity of the nervous system. Would that also be affected?

Also, is there any chance that Marcus would detect anything unusual about Alyosha?

What I always wondered is how Alyosha and Meliden would've thought of each other since both are foundlings raised in Earth culture--though I can't imagine what would cause Meliden to be cleared to know Alyosha's species.

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From what I understand, Andorian antennae are sensitive to electrical fields and shifts in pressure, so what I was wondering, was if he had been aware of Alyosha by some kind of physical detection of his presence, rather than being telepathically aware of Alyosha's consciousness, even if only on a subconscious level.
I'm not entirely sure if Aenar antennae work for the same purpose as the Andorians', but I had kind of thought that if there was anything, it was something telepathic in th'Valek's case.

Alyosha's telepathy, as he said, is not all that strong. He doesn't have the kind of passive perception that Betazoids have--in most cases he has to deliberately focus on somebody in order to pick up any emotions or actually "speak" that way. It's more powerful with another Devidian, though the problem he has there is that he has absolutely zero understanding of their language (though he is capable of sending images and memories). But with a strong telepath--especially one with whom he is on almost brotherly terms--he is able to both "speak" and "hear" that way, which is why th'Valek was able to speak for him when he was so severely incapacitated in his first LC.
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# 112
02-26-2013, 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironphoenix113 View Post
@ everyone,

Ty for the kind words and friendly advice regarding my entry folks. Makes me really glad I decided to start doing these a few months ago.
You're very welcome, and your entries are always a pleasure to read

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Originally Posted by ironphoenix113 View Post
@marcus

As usual, excellent work Are you a published author? because if you're not, you really should be.
That's a great compliment, thankyou The only thing I have had published, is an online article on traditional Japanese underwear... (Hence my choice to have Lambert wear a loincloth to despatch himself )
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# 113
02-26-2013, 03:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Exactly! Alyosha is Russian by culture, too, so I think sometimes on behalf of his countrymen he does get a bit annoyed with the "vodka and nuclear wessels" stereotype that I imagine Chekov did not exactly help with.
That's understandable, I would imagine that men like Yuri Gagarin are among his heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
(Add to that, the fact that Alyosha has no accent when he speaks English. Which in his case is due to his means of speech being entirely different from what it appears to be. So if he were to do the "nuclear wessels" thing, it would be an act.)
Equally understandable, someone who is fluent in a language will often speak with a 'natural accent', rather than their own accent tainting the language... Afterall, Jean-Luc Picard always spoke Federation standard without a French accent

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I would imagine that would appear very different to him, though I think he mainly sees the activity of the nervous system. Would that also be affected?
Only in so much as like the rest of the immortal's body, it would also be in a state of constant renewal. An immortal's nervous system works in the same way as a baseline Human's, and what is often perceived as an invulnerablity to pain, is simply a modification of the learned behaviour that pain is a warning or indicator of damage: For an immortal, any damage will heal perfectly, so damage is not a cause to act or move differently, for example, an immortal could run on a broken leg as soon as the bones have fused enough to structurally support them, regardless of the pain, as it will still heal properly, where if a baseline Human were to try running on a broken leg, it would considerably impact the healing process. Immortals are aware of damage and feel pain, they simply become accustomed to ignoring it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Also, is there any chance that Marcus would detect anything unusual about Alyosha?
I wouldn't think so, as the only different sense which immortals possess, is the ability to sense when another immortal is within a certain vicinity. I put that down to a harmonic resonance between the two quickenings. I think the only way Marcus would have been able to detect Alyosha as anything other than baseline Human, would have been if he had recently fed on another immortal and the neural energy had not been fully absorbed. Given Marcus' position as head of Starfleet Intelligence, I'm sure he would have crossed paths with Alyosha at some point prior to his death

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
What I always wondered is how Alyosha and Meliden would've thought of each other since both are foundlings raised in Earth culture--though I can't imagine what would cause Meliden to be cleared to know Alyosha's species.
I think there would be the kinship of a shared experience, but I'm not sure how Alyosha would view Meliden's hard-drinking partying ways

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I'm not entirely sure if Aenar antennae work for the same purpose as the Andorians',
Ahh, that's certainly something to consider, I'm not sure if they do work the same...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Alyosha's telepathy, as he said, is not all that strong. He doesn't have the kind of passive perception that Betazoids have--in most cases he has to deliberately focus on somebody in order to pick up any emotions or actually "speak" that way. It's more powerful with another Devidian, though the problem he has there is that he has absolutely zero understanding of their language (though he is capable of sending images and memories). But with a strong telepath--especially one with whom he is on almost brotherly terms--he is able to both "speak" and "hear" that way, which is why th'Valek was able to speak for him when he was so severely incapacitated in his first LC.
That would make sense that Alyosha would not understand other Devidians but still be able to communicate with them on a basic level, in the same manner in which Azera Xi does not appear to access the Collective in anyway, but can sometimes be influenced by it when tired. As a child, I read a series of novels where the protagonist's companion was a telepathic creature who was able to pick up on his surface thoughts. If he was to form thoughts of words like projections on a screen, she was able to 'hear' what he was thinking, as well as being able to project her own thoughts into his mind, so it would make sense that th'Valek would be what enabled the telepathic communication to take place, as the more powerful telepath.

Last edited by marcusdkane; 02-26-2013 at 03:58 AM.
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# 114
02-26-2013, 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
That's understandable, I would imagine that men like Yuri Gagarin are among his heroes
I could see that, sure. I think that some of his "Russian heroes" are more literary heroes, too. People like Tolstoy, Solzhenitsyn, and Dostoyevsky...especially Dostoyevsky since he was actually named after Alyosha Karamazov.

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I think the only way Marcus would have been able to detect Alyosha as anything other than baseline Human, would have been if he had recently fed on another immortal and the neural energy had not been fully absorbed.
Given that Alyosha would not do that (even if told it would be safe for the immortal), then that's definitely ruled out...

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Given Marcus' position as head of Starfleet Intelligence, I'm sure he would have crossed paths with Alyosha at some point prior to his death
That could well be, especially given what Alyosha was used for when he was an ensign during the Dominion War. He was used as a courier to carry highly classified orders, since a Founder could not mimic his phase variance. Very few of the people he relayed messages for would have known that the reason he was used in this capacity was because he was Devidian, though. Marcus would probably have known, if he was high-ranked enough in the intelligence apparatus, though.

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I think there would be the kinship of a shared experience, but I'm not sure how Alyosha would view Meliden's hard-drinking partying ways
I don't think he would criticize her unless she did something that had an impact while on duty (such as showing up to her shift with a hangover). He wouldn't approve of it or be interested in discussing those exploits, though. He'd hope the conversation would go to other topics.

Quote:
That would make sense that Alyosha would not understand other Devidians but still be able to communicate with them on a basic level, in the same manner in which Azera Xi does not appear to access the Collective in anyway, but can sometimes be influenced by it when tired.
It's kind of like that, yes...though the show and the game do show other Devidians besides Alyosha being capable of communicating in English. However, Alyosha doesn't understand their native language--heck, he may not even recognize it as language, since he thinks according to human languages. I suspect his attempt to return the favor of a telepathic attack in his first LC seemed "infant-like" to the Devidians in addition to their contempt for the message Alyosha was trying to send them (what it is like to actually feel guilty for consuming a sentient being).

I imagine their speech is very alien-sounding, in their own language. I've tried to hint at that with the idea that Alyosha's natural "laughter" or "crying" are completely inhuman sounds that he must suppress while around humanoids.

I don't think a "native-raised" Devidian is telepathically strong enough to pull off an outright mental invasion, though--and I think feeding is the other circumstance that would likely bring their powers to their height. Their surviving victims have reported intense emotions of terror and despair, but nothing even worse than that.

So I'd say that in the Trek universe, Devidians are not among the stronger telepaths. For telekinesis, though--at least in STO--I'd consider them to be quite powerful.
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Last edited by gulberat; 02-26-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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# 115
02-26-2013, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I could see that, sure. I think that some of his "Russian heroes" are more literary heroes, too. People like Tolstoy, Solzhenitsyn, and Dostoyevsky...especially Dostoyevsky since he was actually named after Alyosha Karamazov.
That makes sense... Was Alyosha named by others, or did he choose his own name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Given that Alyosha would not do that (even if told it would be safe for the immortal), then that's definitely ruled out...

That could well be, especially given what Alyosha was used for when he was an ensign during the Dominion War. He was used as a courier to carry highly classified orders, since a Founder could not mimic his phase variance. Very few of the people he relayed messages for would have known that the reason he was used in this capacity was because he was Devidian, though. Marcus would probably have known, if he was high-ranked enough in the intelligence apparatus, though.
I think that while Marcus would have been aware that Alyosha was Devidian as a matter of record, he wouldn't have been able to distinguish him from a baseline Human, and it would probably have been something which barely registered to him, as Alyosha would pose no threat to his existence. A bat'leth-happy Klingon, on the other hand, would be a very real danger to him, and for this reason, he always had a taj'tiq concealed beneath his uniform jacket. On the flipside, I can imagine that Alyosha would immediately be aware that Marcus was not a baseline Human, and would probably perceive him as a kind of self-sustaining energy, even if not directly aware of what that meant... As a side thought to that, would the maturation process of a being even register to Alyosha's senses in the same way it would to a Human or Klingon? If you ever wish to write a historical piece showing such an interaction, as SparklySoldier did, please feel free to use him as a character

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I don't think he would criticize her unless she did something that had an impact while on duty (such as showing up to her shift with a hangover). He wouldn't approve of it or be interested in discussing those exploits, though. He'd hope the conversation would go to other topics.
I don't think she would be the kind to turn up hungover, but I think it's well known on the Valkyrie that she is not someone to challenge to a drinking competition If her clearance allowed, she would probably find Alyosha's feeding device to be an interesting piece of technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
It's kind of like that, yes...though the show and the game do show other Devidians besides Alyosha being capable of communicating in English. However, Alyosha doesn't understand their native language--heck, he may not even recognize it as language, since he thinks according to human languages.
As Human languages are all he has known since birth, it would make sense that he would think according to those languages and concepts, rather than having an instinctive knowledge of Devidian, and that would have the capacity to communicate with them, but no understanding of the language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I suspect his attempt to return the favor of a telepathic attack in his first LC seemed "infant-like" to the Devidians in addition to their contempt for the message Alyosha was trying to send them (what it is like to actually feel guilty for consuming a sentient being).
I think the fact that he tried to do that, is what sets him apart from his biological kinsmen, and will always make him the more evolved being

Last edited by marcusdkane; 02-26-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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# 116
02-26-2013, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
That makes sense... Was Alyosha named by others, or did he choose his own name?
He was named by others. It actually happened shortly after he accidentally killed one of his first caretakers. He couldn't speak or fully understand language yet (he was still very, very young), but the reaction he showed to what had happened made them think of Alyosha Karamazov. Even though they saw it purely through body language, it was obvious he felt horrible about it.

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I think that while Marcus would have been aware that Alyosha was Devidian as a matter of record, he wouldn't have been able to distinguish him from a baseline Human, and it would probably have been something which barely registered to him, as Alyosha would pose no threat to his existence.
Alyosha would definitely appreciate that, to be treated normally.

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I don't think she would be the kind to turn up hungover, but I think it's well known on the Valkyrie that she is not someone to challenge to a drinking competition If her clearance allowed, she would probably find Alyosha's feeding device to be an interesting piece of technology.
Cardassians have a pretty strong constitution, when it comes to being able to hold their alcohol, or metabolize other drugs. And I would imagine Meliden is still Cardassian underneath her now-human appearance.

And I'd imagine that device would be interesting to her--especially if it was in any way a forerunner to the bioneural tech we later saw in VOY and STO.

Quote:
I think the fact that he tried to do that, is what sets him apart from his biological kinsmen, and will always make him the more evolved being
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# 117
02-26-2013, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
He was named by others. It actually happened shortly after he accidentally killed one of his first caretakers. He couldn't speak or fully understand language yet (he was still very, very young), but the reaction he showed to what had happened made them think of Alyosha Karamazov. Even though they saw it purely through body language, it was obvious he felt horrible about it.
Ah, I wondered if it was a name he had chosen through self-identification with Karamazov, but that would make sense that he would have been named thus

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Alyosha would definitely appreciate that, to be treated normally.
Given his laundry list of 'eccentricities', I think Marcus would be the last person to judge anyone for any reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Cardassians have a pretty strong constitution, when it comes to being able to hold their alcohol, or metabolize other drugs. And I would imagine Meliden is still Cardassian underneath her now-human appearance.
Yes, the changes would only have been skin-deep, and she would still retain her internal Cardassian physiology, although her exterior now matches how she felt inside all along...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
And I'd imagine that device would be interesting to her--especially if it was in any way a forerunner to the bioneural tech we later saw in VOY and STO.
Engineers do love their gadgets... ^_^

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Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
"All, everything that I understand, I understand only because I love."
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# 118
02-26-2013, 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
Ah, I wondered if it was a name he had chosen through self-identification with Karamazov, but that would make sense that he would have been named thus
Even though he was only weeks old at the time, I think his personality was more evident early on than with human children, since I see the Devidian brain and early life stages playing out differently than they do in humans.

(He's not some super-genius, though. What we would expect from ages 0 through about 4 happened extremely fast, and when he became mature enough for school lessons he ended up, at least mentally and emotionally, with what humans would consider a fairly normal development rate.)

That said, I imagine he was told a bit about who Alyosha Karamazov was, as he got old enough to understand the concepts in the book. Had he not cared for that connection, he could've gone by "Alexei" instead, but the fact that he prefers the diminutive form in informal address shows that he really does embrace that connection.

In civilian circumstances with people who are not his friends, he should be addressed as Alexei Ivanovich; that's the cultural equivalent of calling him "Mr. Strannik." But with good friends, he doesn't bother with the name "Alexei"; he skips straight to "Alyosha" because of the resonance that particular diminutive form has with him.
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# 119
02-26-2013, 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Even though he was only weeks old at the time, I think his personality was more evident early on than with human children, since I see the Devidian brain and early life stages playing out differently than they do in humans.

(He's not some super-genius, though. What we would expect from ages 0 through about 4 happened extremely fast, and when he became mature enough for school lessons he ended up, at least mentally and emotionally, with what humans would consider a fairly normal development rate.)

That said, I imagine he was told a bit about who Alyosha Karamazov was, as he got old enough to understand the concepts in the book. Had he not cared for that connection, he could've gone by "Alexei" instead, but the fact that he prefers the diminutive form in informal address shows that he really does embrace that connection.

In civilian circumstances with people who are not his friends, he should be addressed as Alexei Ivanovich; that's the cultural equivalent of calling him "Mr. Strannik." But with good friends, he doesn't bother with the name "Alexei"; he skips straight to "Alyosha" because of the resonance that particular diminutive form has with him.
It makes sense that he would identify more closely with Karamazov's name rather than the full form, although I must admit, I am not familiar with the form for Russian names, so had wondered why 'Alexei' gets changed to 'Alyosha', rather than simply contracted to 'Alex' Equally, Marcus allows his friends to call him 'Marc', but it is only his very closest friends who actually do so. I have written in his bio, that his childhood friend, Selek, named his daughter T'Marc, in his honor. Not sure if she'll be making an appearance, but just thought I'd mention her due to the modification/Vulcanization of the Human name

Last edited by marcusdkane; 02-26-2013 at 06:10 PM.
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# 120
02-26-2013, 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
It makes sense that he would identify more closely with Karamazov's name rather than the full form, although I must admit, I am not familiar with the form for Russian names, so had wondered why 'Alexei' gets changed to 'Alyosha', rather than simply contracted to 'Alex'
Oh, boy, Russian diminutives for names are quite something to explain--and the list of things Alyosha Karamazov himself was called by is quite a long one.

I think I'll just give you this Wikipedia link. I just know this stuff from reading lots of Russian literature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocoristic#Russian

(BTW, you would not want to use all of the ones that are on the list. Certain ones are rude--the kind of diminutive that's a put-down and not a compliment. They tend to end in -ka--though not the ones that end in -enka. Yeah...it's a tough one to explain.)

Quote:
Equally, Marcus allows his friends to call him 'Marc', but it is only his very closest friends who actually do so. I have written in his bio, that his childhood friend, Selek, named his daughter T'Marc, in his honor. Not sure if she'll be making an appearance, but just thought I'd mention her due to the modification/Vulcanization of the Human name
He must've been tickled when Selek did that!
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