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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 11
02-26-2013, 10:54 PM
It's best to think of the classes as just a set of extra BOff skills in STO. In that sense, STO is quite restrictive (in that the 'classes' are really only good at one or two things at most) and at the same time there's a lot of fluid wiggle room, since the captain skills don't really have anything to do with your ship or your BOffs other than what you make of them.

When it comes to choosing a ship type for a captain class, a good thing to do is to ask what you intend to use your captain skills for and whether it's an effective strategy, with preparations for contingencies if things don't go to plan. This goes especially for Tacticals, the most rigid and narrow of the classes. If you put a Tac into a ship, escort or no, you're basically expecting to ramp up whatever your source of damage is, since that's all they're good for. This should give you some perspective for making the decision as to whether your ship is suitable or not.

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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 12
02-26-2013, 11:07 PM
Oh, I should also probably add that, in my opinion, Sci is by a large margin the most flexible class in STO... I've even heard it described as STO's "true endgame profession". You have a very strong complement of offensive and defensive abilities, you can strip buffs, AoE buff all your outgoing damage or keep your team's shields stable, and all of your skills are scalable.

The only limitation for Sci used to be that you had to consider how feasible your ship was for getting a subnuke off, but since the Jumper was brought Fedside this is no longer a problem. There's no ship that a Sci can't perform very well in, really. I really love my Sciscort for example.

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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 13
02-26-2013, 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
I really love my Sciscort for example.
For sure. I think the reason you don't very many sciscorts anymore isn't because they aren't good, but because the "max 3 science captains" rule most tournaments adopt. Three sci/sci, one sciscort, and one tacscort is a very powerful team-comp as you can brute force your way through almost anything with chained nukes or completely shut down the other side's offensive by saving a couple of nukes to blunt alphas.

Last edited by hurleybird; 02-26-2013 at 11:13 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 14
02-26-2013, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
For sure. I think the reason you don't very many sciscorts anymore isn't because they aren't good, but because the "max 3 science captains" rule most tournaments adopt. Three sci/sci, one sciscort, and one tacscort is a very powerful team-comp as you can brute force your way through almost anything with chained nukes.
Yeah, it's funny cause you'll just never be on a team where you're thinking, "Ugh, we have way too much Sci"... if the rule wasn't in place you can be damn sure there'd be 4 Sci/1 Tac teams ruling the roost.

What's nice is that DHCs still hit extremely hard on a Sci, espesh on a properly-managed, isolated and debuffed target. It doesn't quite have the 'punch' these days of a Tac for ripping through Fleet shields/passives/consoles, but ofc that's why you have your team there to help out.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 15
02-26-2013, 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronplah78 View Post
Hi STO community,

I'm a dedicated Tactical Capt, and mainly PvP in an escort. I seen and heard talk about tact capts who have used cruisers and, to some degree, carriers in PvP.

My thoughts fall specifically on cruisers such as D'Kora, Galor, and the Fleet Assault Cruiser. For carriers, Jemmy Dread and the Jemmy Heavy Escort Carrier.

What are your thoughts? How effectively can you implement these ships for PvP use as a tact capt?

Thank You
The problem with the tac powers is that they are multiplicative. In other words, the more multipliers to your damage you can apply, the more each single one of them is useful. Apart from a Tac captain's powers, there are basically only the Tactical Bridge Officer Abilities that offer such multipliers.

Add that to a high base damage (usually from the Dual Heavy Cannon/Turret combination with at least 4 tactical consoles, which rules everything by ridiculous margins), and you find that your damage is extreme.

So, following that and looking at your list, there is only one ship that might give you what you want for maximum effectiveness, and that is the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought with Danube Runabout pets, possibly a cloaked tractor beam mine launcher, a DHC/turret build, and the patience to use such a slow turning ship for that.

But then, you'll basically command a slow escort, which will be almost as good as your regular escorts. Hurrah.

Optimizing for "maximum effectiveness" obviously leads to that kind of boring results.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,107
# 16
02-26-2013, 11:47 PM
i absolutely enjoy flying almost anything which i can turn into something like a "good-build" that fits my playstyle (sure, not all ships fit in this).
and mostly i do not perform that bad in cruisers or my vesta. sure, i don't hit as hard as f.e. in a steamrunner (depends on ship --> d'kora f.e. is just dangerous with a dhc build ), but on the other hand got more survivability to fight one down/got some baddies (f.e. vm) which can shorten fights out of another perspective than dps-only (as for me: i always start to curse when fighting sci's ).
sometimes i tank whole teams in my fleet regent (yeah i know, sometimes ). not to talk about hunting down scorts in my beamboat fleet-ent-d or -regent.

... this all not is intented to point on: i'm soooo capable and dangerous ^^, what i want to say is: try it on your own. play a bit with abilities, doffs and gear and if you get to combination that fits your style and keeps you somehow alive (and you enjoy flying it), run it. regardless of the ship, only matter is that it fits your style (f.e. sometimes i like to do dps- and heal support in arenas with my f-regent. and if i'm on my own i can pack a decent punch with bo2+3, 4 tac-consoles and my tac-powers. very relaxed playing ).

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Last edited by wast33; 02-26-2013 at 11:54 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,796
# 17
02-27-2013, 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
For sure. I think the reason you don't very many sciscorts anymore isn't because they aren't good, but because the "max 3 science captains" rule most tournaments adopt. Three sci/sci, one sciscort, and one tacscort is a very powerful team-comp as you can brute force your way through almost anything with chained nukes or completely shut down the other side's offensive by saving a couple of nukes to blunt alphas.
Or it could be that 1 perhaps 2 high level pvp matches happen a month anymore... and to be frank... SNB is overrated in a pug.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 18
02-27-2013, 12:39 AM
Tactical Captain abilities buff the damage of the following Science powers:

Feedback Pulse
Tractor Beam Repulsors
Gravity Well
Photonic Shockwave
Tractor Beam
Tyken's Rift

Of those, the last two can effectively be discounted as sources of worthwhile damage in-and-of themselves. Of the remaining, maximizing the magnitude of the damage they do requires you to slot Particle Generators, forgoing buffing the actual debuffing effect applied by the power, or at least, reducing it in a significant manner for three of the powers when used versus players. Photonic Shockwave will not push as far, Gravity Well's pull radius will be smaller leading to a weaker overall pull, and Repulsors are much less effective at breaking up groups of enemies. That last point may be ideal for dealing damage with TBR, but only when the damage said repulsors are dealing isn't going to be washed away from a nearby Aux2SIF 3 and/or ET.

Feedback Pulse is the only power who's CC component is actually strengthened by Particle Generators and Tactical Captains... as it's primary role is as an attacker deterrent which returns energy damage, dealt to the defender, to the attacker as kinetic damage with very high shield penetration. It is also reliant on being shot in the first place.

If you put a Tactical Captain in a Science Ship you'll find it difficult to deal ship crushing damage that instantly eliminates a target setup to kill, while being less effective at setting up kills. You also run a very real risk of dealing a lot of ultimately non-lethal hull damage that can lead to an opponent getting a highly charged Go Down Fighting* which makes it that much harder for your team to stay alive in the first place.

*Science ships tend to have weak hulls making it riskier still to surf to a low hull percentage before activating the ability.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 522
# 19
03-01-2013, 08:36 PM
What science abilities are boosted directly by sci captain powers in the same way tac captains can boost sci boff powers?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,081
# 20
03-01-2013, 09:11 PM
Two big things have killed tacs in anything but escorts.

1) Suck-tastic beams, which its not that they became worse it is that passive defense has become so insanely high it is burst or bust.
2) Neutering of nearly every Sci ability that Tac abilities work with.

That said their are two things (still gimmicky) that might be interesting with a TAC.

1) DEM cannon cruiser. Goal is to ignore shields and hit GDF at the right time paired with a nasty Alpha and Omega and shred the hull before the enemy notices. Relying on a bad opponent is likely not a good idea. Excel would be my choice here.

2) Sensor Analysis + Tric Mines. When you get enough things multiplying these may still be capable of one shots but the lower rank dispersal pattern will hurt. On second thought this is a bad idea.

Basically for PuGing and having fun go for it, if your serious about performance in a well built team good luck.
STO's F2P is basically an inferior experience for the masses at no cost being subsidized by a handful of whales seeking whatever it is that motivates them to spend hundreds if not thousands on a game.
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